1265 replies to this topic

[Darby Weaver]

When is your CCIE Lab Date and where is it?

I'll start:

Octbober 5th RTP.

Edited by Darby Weaver, 23 August 2011 - 10:56 PM.

[Darby Weaver]

Someone asked and so here you are:

CCIE RS Rack

6 3725 Routers (2FE,Aux/Console) + NM-4AS - $300.00 + $45.00 each = $2170.00
1 2522 Routers (1E, Aux/Console) BRI and 10 Serial Interfaces $150.00 = $ 150.00
1 2511 Router (1E, Aux/Console) + 2 Octal Cables + Aui for Ethernet = $150 + 50 + 10 = $ 210.00
4 3560 Switches (24 Ports non-POE) $1000.00 each = $4000.00
15 DB-60 Cables @ ~10.00 each = $ 150.00
================================================================================================
Total: = $6680.00

This ought to be about right.

If you need to save cash you can get 4 3550's for about $800.00 total and save $3300.00 very quickly.

Note: 1841's cost more money but I don't see what extra functionality is obtained from them for the lab purposes except a smaller footprint.

Edited by Darby Weaver, 20 October 2009 - 01:57 PM.

[silvercleric]

Someone asked and so here you are:

CCIE RS Rack

6 3725 Routers (2FE,Aux/Console) + NM-4AS - $300.00 + $45.00 each = $2170.00
1 2522 Routers (1E, Aux/Console) BRI and 10 Serial Interfaces $150.00 = $ 150.00
1 2511 Router (1E, Aux/Console) + 2 Octal Cables + Aui for Ethernet = $150 + 50 + 10 = $ 210.00
4 3560 Switches (24 Ports non-POE) $1000.00 each = $4000.00
15 DB-60 Cables @ ~10.00 each = $ 150.00
================================================================================================
Total: = $6680.00

This ought to be about right.

If you need to save cash you can get 4 3550's for about $800.00 total and save $3300.00 very quickly.

Note: 1841's cost more money but I don't see what extra functionality is obtained from them for the lab purposes except a smaller footprint.

Edited by Darby Weaver, 23 August 2011 - 11:01 PM.

[MarkinManchester]

Hi

I could sell you this for 2500gbp

Complete CCIE R&S lab setup, this will allow you to run almost any configuration from any workbook vendor e.g. internetworkexpert, ipexpert, narbik, [websitebanned] etc. It offers full mesh capability both on frame relay and fastethernet and includes remote power control and access server. All cables e.g. serial, x-over, power, octal etc included.

This equipment will give you the topology shown.

FR Switch/Access server

Cisco 3640 (R4700) processor (revision 0x00) with 124928K/6144K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID 25050321
R4700 CPU at 100MHz, Implementation 33, Rev 1.0
1 Ethernet interface
4 Serial interfaces
8 Low-speed serial(sync/async) interfaces
16 terminal lines
DRAM configuration is 64 bits wide with parity disabled.
125K bytes of NVRAM.
32768K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write)

R1

Cisco 2651XM (MPC860P) processor (revision 4.1) with 253952K/8192K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID FCZ1002735J
M860 processor: part number 5, mask 2
2 FastEthernet interfaces
2 Serial interfaces
32K bytes of NVRAM.
32768K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write)

R2

Cisco 2621XM (MPC860P) processor (revision 4.1) with 118784K/12288K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID FCZ1015721Z
M860 processor: part number 5, mask 2
2 FastEthernet interfaces
2 Serial interfaces
32K bytes of NVRAM.
32768K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write)

R3

Cisco 2651XM (MPC860P) processor (revision 4.1) with 253952K/8192K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID JHY0905K0Z4
M860 processor: part number 5, mask 2
2 FastEthernet interfaces
2 Serial interfaces
32K bytes of NVRAM.
32768K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write

R4

Cisco 2611XM (MPC860P) processor (revision 4.1) with 118784K/12288K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID FCZ101271EY
M860 processor: part number 5, mask 2
2 FastEthernet interfaces
2 Serial interfaces
32K bytes of NVRAM.
49152K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write)

R5

Cisco 2651XM (MPC860P) processor (revision 4.0) with 253952K/8192K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID JHY0906K06U
M860 processor: part number 5, mask 2
2 FastEthernet interfaces
2 Serial interfaces
32K bytes of NVRAM.
32768K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write)

R6

Cisco 2651XM (MPC860P) processor (revision 4.1) with 253952K/8192K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID JHY0905K0RK
M860 processor: part number 5, mask 2
2 FastEthernet interfaces
2 Serial interfaces
32K bytes of NVRAM.
32768K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write)

SW1

cisco WS-C3560-24TS (PowerPC405) processor (revision E0) with 122880K/8184K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID CAT1116ZJMJ
Last reset from power-on
2 Virtual Ethernet interfaces
24 FastEthernet interfaces
2 Gigabit Ethernet interfaces
The password-recovery mechanism is disabled.

512K bytes of flash-simulated non-volatile configuration memory.
Base ethernet MAC Address : 00:1B:90:D0:04:00
Motherboard assembly number : 73-9897-06
Power supply part number : 341-0097-02
Motherboard serial number : CAT11155Y1Q
Power supply serial number : DCA111383FW
Model revision number : E0
Motherboard revision number : B0
Model number : WS-C3560-24TS-S
System serial number : CAT1116ZJMJ
Top Assembly Part Number : 800-26160-02
Top Assembly Revision Number : E0
Version ID : V02
CLEI Code Number : COMMG00ARB
Hardware Board Revision Number : 0x01


Switch Ports Model SW Version SW Image
------ ----- ----- ---------- ----------
* 1 26 WS-C3560-24TS 12.2(50)SE1 C3560-IPSERVICESK9-M

SW2

cisco WS-C3560-24TS (PowerPC405) processor (revision E0) with 118784K/12280K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID FDO1232X3LV
Last reset from power-on
2 Virtual Ethernet interfaces
24 FastEthernet interfaces
2 Gigabit Ethernet interfaces
The password-recovery mechanism is disabled.

512K bytes of flash-simulated non-volatile configuration memory.
Base ethernet MAC Address : 00:23:04:42:51:00
Motherboard assembly number : 73-9897-06
Power supply part number : 341-0097-02
Motherboard serial number : FDO12320MY5
Power supply serial number : DCA12248NAD
Model revision number : E0
Motherboard revision number : B0
Model number : WS-C3560-24TS-S
System serial number : FDO1232X3LV
Top Assembly Part Number : 800-26160-02
Top Assembly Revision Number : E0
Version ID : V02
CLEI Code Number : COMMG00ARB
Hardware Board Revision Number : 0x01


Switch Ports Model SW Version SW Image
------ ----- ----- ---------- ----------
* 1 26 WS-C3560-24TS 12.2(25)SEE4 C3560-ADVIPSERVICESK

SW3

Cisco WS-C3550-48 (PowerPC) processor (revision G0) with 65526K/8192K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID CAT0638X17B
Last reset from warm-reset
Running Layer2/3 Switching Image

Ethernet-controller 1 has 12 Fast Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interfaces

Ethernet-controller 2 has 12 Fast Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interfaces

Ethernet-controller 3 has 12 Fast Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interfaces

Ethernet-controller 4 has 12 Fast Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interfaces

Ethernet-controller 5 has 1 Gigabit Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface

Ethernet-controller 6 has 1 Gigabit Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface

48 FastEthernet interfaces
2 Gigabit Ethernet interfaces

The password-recovery mechanism is disabled.
384K bytes of flash-simulated NVRAM.
Base ethernet MAC Address: 00:0A:F4:DF:6A:00
Motherboard assembly number: 73-5701-07
Power supply part number: 34-0967-01
Motherboard serial number: CAT063803FD
Power supply serial number: DCA06351QWR
Model revision number: G0
Motherboard revision number: A0
Model number: WS-C3550-48-SMI
System serial number: CAT0638X17B
Configuration register is 0x10F

SW4


Cisco WS-C3550-48 (PowerPC) processor (revision N0) with 65526K/8192K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID CAT0825Y2XQ
Last reset from warm-reset
Running Layer2/3 Switching Image

Ethernet-controller 1 has 12 Fast Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interfaces

Ethernet-controller 2 has 12 Fast Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interfaces

Ethernet-controller 3 has 12 Fast Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interfaces

Ethernet-controller 4 has 12 Fast Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interfaces

Ethernet-controller 5 has 1 Gigabit Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface

Ethernet-controller 6 has 1 Gigabit Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface

48 FastEthernet interfaces
2 Gigabit Ethernet interfaces

The password-recovery mechanism is enabled.
384K bytes of flash-simulated NVRAM.
Base ethernet MAC Address: 00:11:92:5A:81:80
Motherboard assembly number: 73-5701-09
Power supply part number: 34-0967-02
Motherboard serial number: CAT08250G6Q
Power supply serial number: DTH08205K70
Model revision number: N0
Motherboard revision number: A0
Model number: WS-C3550-48-SMI
System serial number: CAT0825Y2XQ
Configuration register is 0x10F

BB1

cisco 2610 (MPC860) processor (revision 0x203) with 61440K/4096K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID JAD05020QYS (2980610780)
M860 processor: part number 0, mask 49
Bridging software.
X.25 software, Version 3.0.0.
1 Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface(s)
32K bytes of non-volatile configuration memory.
16384K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write)

BB2

Cisco 2610XM (MPC860P) processor (revision 1.0) with 127627K/3445K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID JAD06300K0W
M860 processor: part number 5, mask 2
1 FastEthernet interface
32K bytes of NVRAM.
32768K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write)

BB3

cisco 2611 (MPC860) processor (revision 0x00) with 61440K/4096K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID JAD0708034F (3897525630)
M860 processor: part number 5, mask 2
Bridging software.
X.25 software, Version 3.0.0.
2 Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface(s)
32K bytes of non-volatile configuration memory.
16384K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write)

RPC

American Power Conversion Web/SNMP Management Card AOS v3.0.3
© Copyright 2000 All Rights Reserved MasterSwitch APP v2.2.0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name : RACK3 Date : 10/03/2009
Contact : Unknown Time : 17:28:50
Location : Unknown Up Time : 13 Days 6 Hours 45 Minutes
Status : P+ N+ A+ User : Administrator

MasterSwitch : Serial Communication Established

[Darby Weaver]

I switched my racks recently to 2600XM's for the sake of saving power.

Only certain versions of code on the 2600XM's support MPLS.

So buyer has to take this into account. I've got to go and see if it is even still available. I have a full fleet of 3745's and 2800's that I can use standing by for the CCIEv4.0, most may not have the luxury. The 3640's should fully support MPLS and I know they have Service Provider options, the problem with the 2600XM's is that if they do support SP Code they may not fully support later features like we can expect to see in labs from vendors.

[Darby Weaver]

No one has mentioned specifics about MPLS yet. Kinda strange he did not but then there is an NDA.

I do not believe than MPLS will be especially difficult or very taxing. I would expect to see it on every troubleshooting section by everyone.

If it is on the hands on section, I expect to see it on maybe 2-3 routers used in terms of a triangle and maybe vfr-lite or an MPLS-VPN. Again, it is not the reason for the exam nor do I expect it to be the main these of the exam.

Consider the point values of Multicast or IPv6 - 4-6 points.

This means maybe 2 points to build the basic MPLS and then 2 points to build the MPLS VPN for example.

The config should be rather straight forward.

1. Enable mpls on the device.

2. Enable mpls on the interface.

3. Enable the mpls on any given routing protocol (if required)

4. Define the MPLS-VPN / VRF

5. Define the RD: or Route-Target

6. Import/Export as required.

7. Verify connectivity and/or that traffic is using the VRF.

Now for troubleshooting, I'd expect pretty much any of the above and take an item away or mess it up one piece at a time and voila! You got some neat little troubleshooting problems.

Example: If there is no "ip cef" enabled on a router, will mpls work at all?

Imagine it was removed. Now you have a troubleshooting scenario for MPLS on say 3 routers... and one of them or all of them are missing the command.

Fix it.

Suppose you did not bring a routing protocol into the VRF? Fix it.

Suppose you did not import or export properly? Fix it.

Suppose you fat-fingered the VRF Name with cap and non-caps? Fix it.

Suppose you fat-fingered the RD or RT values? Fix it.

These are the most likely issues in my opinion and of course there are others like this but this is a greenfield technology for RS candidates. So set your expectations accordingly.


Do you guys need me to build some examples and lab them up and present them? Cisco will use different wording, no doubt, and but these are the likely issues.

I've seen some heavy-duty trouble-shooting from IPE and some heavy-duty labs from IPE on MPLS.

I don't think that is what we are going to see going forward.

Great preparation, no doubt, but a little much for the lab itself - just my opinion.

[Darby Weaver]

October 20th Lab Candidate:


Version 4.0 is no joke. I didn't pass today. At least I don't think I
passed. There was just too much new material that I wasn't prepared for. I'd
recommend to anyone about to take the lab to really hit the DocCD hard. For
the most part, I didn't find the troubleshooting section very difficult. I
did get held with MPLS troubleshoot though. The frustrating thing was that
with about a minute left, I realized what was wrong. Also I think there's a
lot less easy points in the new version. I am planning on retaking it in 3
months. But for now I have to refocus on starting work again.

Does anyone have a general guideline about what exactly are the boundaries
of NDA? I remember Narbik talking about that in the bootcamp, but I don't
really remember right now.

The biggest thing I don't like about the new online format is that there's
just too much material to fit on one monitor. It's really just a lot of
clutter. Having everything in a notebook was so much easier. You could
quickly flip back and forth between pages. I'd advise anyone thinking about
taking to wait at least a month till they work out the bugs.

--
Mike McFarlin
router.genie@gmail.com


was just referring to poor design. The fact that there's too much material
too fit on one screen. It takes longer to switch between windows anytime you
want to cross reference something as opposed to just flipping a page in a
notebook. If they really want to have everything online, they need to
provide more than one monitor.


Mike McFarlin
router.genie@gmail.com

[Geptek]

A Sneak Peek at the v4 CCIE R/S Lab by Wendell

http://www.networkwo...nity/node/46561

[Darby Weaver]

So we've heard from:

Denise Donahue

Wendell Odom

Scott Morris

etc.

All accomplished CCIE's and Subject Matter Experts each with 10-15+ years of being a CCIE...

Did anyone read where any of them said they passed this new lab?

[Darby Weaver]

Not even close!
0
Up Down
By wendell on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 5:54am.
I haven't seen the score yet - they don't give an official score for a few months (because it's a Beta). But it's mathematically impossible that I passed.
Oh well... it was still an interesting experience!
Wendell

[Darby Weaver]

Introducing Denise Donahue:

26 posts since Jun 12, 2008
For those who don’t know me, I’ve been a CCIE since mid-2002 and am the co-author of several CiscoPress books, including “CCIE Route/Switch Exam Certification Guide 4th edition”, “Cisco Voice Gateways and Gatekeepers”, and “CCNP Quick Reference Sheets.


Oct 8, 2009 9:03 AM
Currently Being Moderated

Denise Donohue
26 posts since Jun 12, 2008
For those who don’t know me, I’ve been a CCIE since mid-2002 and am the co-author of several CiscoPress books, including “CCIE Route/Switch Exam Certification Guide 4th edition”, “Cisco Voice Gateways and Gatekeepers”, and “CCNP Quick Reference Sheets”. I recently took the beta of the new version 4.0 CCIE R/S lab exam to offer feedback to Cisco. With their approval, I'd like to offer my impressions to those preparing for, or considering, the CCIE R/S lab exam. A big caveat – my job does not routinely involve configuration anymore, and I didn’t get a chance to study until on the flight there, so a prepared candidate’s experience will definitely vary from mine!



Overall, I was favorably impressed. It has some cool and interesting new features. The most visible difference is the computer interface. All documentation is web-based now, including the lab instructions. No more binder on the desk. The main web page has the overall diagram and links to instructions and documentation. You click on a router to open a SecureCRT console session with it. There is also a link to manage the devices (reboot one, for example.) You can access CCO documentation from a link on the main page also. You can’t search CCO, though, unfortunately.



I didn’t know what to expect from the core questions since they weren’t on the lab when I took it seven years ago, but I thought they would be trivial. They weren’t. But they also were well within what one would expect someone sitting the exam to know easily.



The two-hour troubleshooting section is new for the one-day exam and follows the core questions. There are multiple trouble tickets, all relating to the same network so you don’t have to learn a new network for each one. You can do them in any order. I felt that the questions were fairly representative of things you might run across in a production environment. If you’ve set up your own lab and done all the experimenting you should while studying, you’ve probably already made most possible mistakes anyway! Probably the best way to ace the troubleshooting section is to have a very in-depth knowledge of all the technologies covered in the lab. One thing you should know is that the computer closes the exam exactly at the end of two hours. You don’t have any wiggle room to finish things up, so keep an eye on the time. If you finish early, you can end that portion and start the configuration portion of the lab.



The configuration portion is the last 5 ½ hours. I found it easy to get used to the web interface and having the instructions on the screen rather than on paper. The monitor screens are big enough that you can have multiple windows open at once. However, it was annoying to move the windows to see the lab diagram. If the actual lab doesn’t offer a paper version of the diagram, I recommend that you draw your own. The equipment was sometimes a little slow in responding to commands, because the actual routers and switches are in San Jose and I took the exam in RTP. It was nothing to worry about, just something to be aware of. I think the equipment has been remote for a while now, so if you’ve taken the lab recently then it’s familiar to you. The equipment sat beside us when I took my lab. There are some new technologies in the blueprint, and the configuration part is two hours shorter, so one would expect that portion to be scaled back somewhat.



Studying for version 4.0 should be no different than studying for the CCIE lab has always been - know the core routing, switching, and WAN technologies cold. Practice them until you can do them in your sleep. Then tackle all the other things on the blueprint, paying attention to the odd and unusual things you can do with them. As always, having a strong understanding of as many technologies, techniques, and IOS features as possible gives you time to research the tasks you’ve never heard of.



Good luck with your exam! I'm interested to hear about your experiences with it!




Tags: ccie_4.0, ccie_rs, ccie_routing_and_switching
Scott Morris - CCIE/JNCIE
2,400 posts since
Oct 7, 2008
Currently Being Moderated
1. Oct 8, 2009 9:05 AM in response to: Denise Donohue
Re: Review of CCIE v4 Beta Lab Exam

Great reveiw Denise!


So, did you "pass"?


Scott
Report Abuse
Denise Donohue
26 posts since
Jun 12, 2008
Currently Being Moderated
2. Oct 14, 2009 10:04 AM in response to: Scott Morris - CCIE/JNCIE
Re: Review of CCIE v4 Beta Lab Exam

Not a chance! It totally kicked my b utt.

[Darby Weaver]

Hey team,

I was hoping for a better post ... Yesterday I took the lab and failed.
Some thoughts and comments, and hopefully you all will find these helpful.
Sorry for the long post.

*** OEQs - passed this part.

- I found these to be fairly interesting. 3 were pretty easy and 1 was a
bit hard IMO. The hard one really belonged to another CCIE track, and not
the R&S ... I gave it my best guess, but since I was not studying for this
technology, I am not sure of the answer. I suppose that one could argue
that I should be aware of this hard question ..., and I was a little bit,
but I certainly was not studying for it.

- From my experience with the OEQs, I found these to fall in line with many
of my lab testing and feature testing I had done in my preparation. If you
like to test a protocol and verify your work, then you will have no problems
with the questions I had. Simple memorization would have been hard to do.
Example of what I mean (this was not on my lab and this is only an example
of what I mean)

Example: lets say that you are studying trunking and you want to practice
configuring one side and not the other. Looking at the config options with
the trunk protocols and port modes, what would happen if you only configured
one side? What happens if you misconfigured one side? What happens if you
have misconfigured duplex and speeds?

In my case, I have learned a lot by using debugs and misconfiguring things.
You all know that when things do not go right, you will learn a lot. It is
easy to forget the labs you did when everything worked.

So to continue following this example - if you were asked about a trunking
config or about a trunk operation for a OEQ, you would probably get this
question and think it was easy.

For the 3 'easy' questions I had, I found that my normal study habits
covered these nicely.

I do wish Cisco would get rid of these OEQs all together however, they are
not worth the time IMO, and do not really ensure 'only-experts' pass. A lot
of 'hit-or-miss' in these questions and my feelings are that some experts
have failed the lab because of these, and I think these people should have
passed. Any who ...

*** Troubleshooting section - I failed this section since I had not
completed enough tickets in the time given.

It was very disheartening that before lunch I knew my whole trip was a
failure. I simply had not completed enough tickets given the time.

Most of these were similar to what I have labbed, however, a few of these
were odd IMO and I did not even think of these for an R&S / enterprise type
...

The wording of the problem is purposely vague, and the router access was
clumsy. I think the screen could be partitioned and presented in a much
more clear way. It is very easy to look at the diagram and get lost and or
confused. I got the feeling that Cisco is trying to do too much with one
screen, and i would suggest that the screen be broken up some /
partitioned.

Overall, I liked the idea of having a troubleshooting section ...

Putting the confusion and wording aside, you have to study very hard for
this section. I figured since I have done a fair amount of tshooting in the
past and in my studies, that I would find this section an easy addition. I
also consider myself decent with the core technologies and some of the new
'non-core' lab items, so I was looking forward to this.

My approach does not work. One reason this does not work is because the
questions are so vague. An example that was previously shown by Cisco was
"router X cannot communicate with router Y". How to troubleshoot this
quickly? There are a few routers and or a frame relay network in the middle
of the two end points ...

Lets say you start with a ping and the ping fails, ok ... you verified that
the trouble ticket are real trouble tickets. Ping does not get you much in
this environment ... so is the problem an IP address misconfigured on the
end point routers or a router in the middle, an interface shutdown, a
routing protocol configured wrong, etc ... how to start and find this
quickly?

If you have 12 tickets in total, and you need to pass this section, then
you need to solve about 9 or so ... Try to solve them all ... make sure you
have some 'padding' in case one of your other solutions is not the right
one. My advice would be to solve as many as you can.

You have about 11 to 13 minutes per question. I found this section hard ...
and did not pass this section.

I wish the troubleshooting section could be included in the regular lab.
This way you would solve the tickets as well as build your lab at the same
time. Any who ...

*** Configure section - I failed this part as well.

I agree with what others have said. You have around 5.5 hours and an
enormous amount of information to get through. It seems like they have
taken a normal lab and just reorganized it and now give you less time to
solve it.

Please forgive me for suggesting this, but ... in order to pass the config
section, I almost feel as though you need to memorize commands and spit out
the configs quickly. No time for doc cd, and limited time for the '?'. I
think it is a terrible idea to blindly memorize materials ... but I cannot
think of another way to answer a huge amount of material in just a little
over 5 hours.

Does this mean that being a CCIE requires you to have an amazing memory? I
hate to say it, but I think Cisco is missing it on this. I do not think
this format allows for a lot of individual creativity and style ... I think
you will have to fit whatever mold is required. Perhaps that is a good
thing anyway, maybe ... I just think that the config section will force
people to memorize technologies. I would like to see differences in people
and also still allow for different approaches and styles.

Sorry team, I know I am not communicating this very well, and in fact I do
not like the way this sounds.

If I am to plan my next take, I will make sure that I can spit out the
"non-core" commands quickly, as well as the 'extraneous' and obscure tweaks
to each of these non-core topics ... I would need to do this super fast
since time is so tight. We used to have the doc cd for these obscure items
... maybe you can still rely on the doc cd, and you should know how to find
everything super quick.

What is core and non-core? <-- ... IMO, this has not been communicated
properly yet ...

I think that my lab was really more of a network admin lab, and less like a
'set up an advanced and insane network'. What does this mean in terms of
lab topics? Well ... look at the lab blueprint, and think about which items
are 'on-going' and admin work. Study the heck out of these ...

My lab had some new topics on it, of course it was the new version; makes
sense ... Lord knows I do not want to break the NDA here ... so I am trying
to tip toe this topic carefully ...

Let me just say, it is my opinion that you cannot pass without knowing the
non-core topics. Does this make sense? Probably not ... what I think has
happened is that the lab has shifted its core. From what used to be
advanced network set up, R&S, ... to more of a network admin role. This is
also what Cisco has told us.

Folks - think back to what Maurilio has told us and the extensive research
that Cisco did when re-designing the R&S CCIE. Cisco found out that
companies are not looking for network set up, but more of an ongoing
maintenance, monitoring, troubleshooting, etc ...

So this means less focus on what we used to think was core; folks, I cannot
emphasize this enough. I was very disappointed to find that what I had
previously considered to be the traditional R&S core topics are not really
core anymore ... in fact, my studies were off. Cisco told us that the
version 4 lab had changed its focus ... I guess I did not fully understand
what this means in terms of prep work.

Team - as mentioned above, look over the blueprint again and consider those
items which represent this change in focus and study the heck out of them.
(the non-core is now core topics). Of course you have to know the "core R&S
topics" ... but you will not pass without knowing the "new v4 core" (AKA
non-core).

Back to the earlier question ... what is core and non-core? Another way of
looking at this question is ... "can I pass without knowing the non-core
topics?" As others have mentioned in their v4 reviews, everything on the
blueprint is fair game. Ok ... we already knew this, and team, I hope this
is becoming clearer.

Do not make the same mistake as me and think that the R&S is a routing is
switching lab ... the focus has changed some as Cisco told us. I hope this
message is getting out.

'nough said about that.

A little about my prep work. I have used the ASET labs, and these are
great. These helped me a lot in the CCIE v3 topics. I was able to get
through many of these in 6 hours or so ... and get 90%+ in scores. I
thought I was ready for the CCIE lab and everything seemed to be on target
for my lab! As mentioned above however, I did not fully understand the
change in focus and how the non-core items have become core. I also used
CCBOOTCAMPs v3 materials, and I enjoyed these a lot. I was completing these
fairly well in my studies.

I am sorry to be so confusing in my writing. I hope what I have said makes
sense. Please also go back and re-read what Cisco has told us about the new
v4 design and new topics.

Also team, I hope to avoid a word smith exercise with any of you about
what the word core means. I am sure that this word has many meanings to
many people.

It is getting late and I am sure my ramblings have become long winded
please permit a few more (then I promise to be done with this email)

A suggestion to the vendors who are on this list. I might suggest to take
an 8 hour lab and fit it into a 5.5 hour time frame. Please also consider
the change in focus that Cisco told us about and ensure that there are
plenty of additional items in the labs you create. Remove some of the
routing and switching portions and make sure you include extraneous and
obscure non-core topics. We have to be an expert in everything of course

You all are very sharp, all of you, and so I am probably not telling you
anything you do not already know. Rock on vendors!

For the Cisco partners, the change in focus is good for enterprise customers
who need more of a network admin focus / role and does this fit your
business model? What do Cisco partners want in a CCIE? Is this
represented in the new v4 format? If not, I would suggest to voice your
comments as it is important to both partners and enterprise customers. Very
important to voice your comments / praise / concerns. Just a thought .

Team pardon the delays in my next responses. After having put many things
on hold, I have an immediate honey-do list to take care of. I have some
work to do around the house before I can consider how I will take this on
again oh boy, it is fall in NJ and so I have mountains of leaves to attend
to. My aching back!

Lol have a great night team.

--
Andrew Lee Lissitz
all.from.nj@gmail.com

[Darby Weaver]

I just got back from the lab yesterday and I have to say the above comments
in this post are right on 100%. IMHO there are no more so called core and
non-core tasks! You have to now go into the lab with a nearly perfect
knowledge of EVERY THING on the blue print. In my past studies I focused
very hard on L2, L3 & some of the smaller topics like services (i.e. ntp,
drp, netflow, etc) I knew well, but knew where they were in the DocCD.
***YOU CAN NOT DO THIS NOW!!!!****. With out breaking NDA, lets say you
have a question in trouble shooting on what in the past was a Non-Core
topic. You DO NOT have time to go to the DocCD. You have to be able to
spit out any solution both Core and Non-Core and any tweek on it with out
looking at the DocCD.

I have worked on my company's IT Emergency Response Team for a number of
years now, and I have to say the way the new Trouble shooting section is
designed made me feel like I was in a ERT swarm session. The time limit and
the clock counting down adds a TON of pressure!!! The only thing that was
missing was a VP, and CIO standing over my shoulder with a upset look on
their face!!!

I will agree with what everything people are saying about the Trouble
shooting Section. The question are VERY vague, but in my experience this is
the type of trouble tickets I get at work. Typically I get tickets from my
NOC that say network node "X" is unreachable, and that is ALL that is in the
ticket. I think the CCIE team must have asked customers for copies of there
NOC tickets and emulated them in the exam. This new Trouble Shooting
section really raises the bar and the focus on the CCIE exam. This is not
my first attempt at the lab, and I will say it is totally different that the
V3 lab.

I feel we all have to shift the way we study in order to pass the new exam.
I would not say memorize the Non-core tasks but learn them just as well as
core tasks. Focus on the Blue Print VERY VERY hard. If it is on the Blue
Print know it 125% If you see it on the Blue print you have to be able to
spit out every thing on the subject with out the DocCD for any help!!!

OEQ - Same old stuff, nothing new here. But I feel with the new Trouble
shooting section it is now pointless and a waist of time.

Config section - Just like every one has said, there are less sections, but
more tasks in each section. So basically the same old lab in a 5.5 hour
session. No time for the DocCD if you need help. You have to be in a rush
the whole lab. I really recommend that everyone goes any buys a stop watch
and start timing your config sections and find ways to shorten your time on
every study section.


My results - I dont have the official results yet, but I already know I
failed. I was not able to get enough trouble tickets done by the time
limit. I did the math and knew I did not reach the ~80% to pass. When
the clock hit and I knew I did not pass the TS it took me nearly 30 min to
pick my self up and continue on with the config section. Knowing that the
rest of my day was basically a waist of my time, I found it VERY hard to
bring myself to go through the pain of the rest of the lab, when I knew it
was in vain.

I am going to go back to study and shift my focus, and try again in maybe 6
or 9 months. Service Provider here I come!!!

I hope this helps everyone out there, and good luck!!!

Chris

Roy,

The SP track was actually some thing I was looking to do any way. Being
that I am < 24 hours after my lab it might just be emotion speaking. I
still want to go back and beat the R&S exam. I have put to much time and
dedication in it to quit now! I will get it, i am just not sure of the
path I will take to get there now.

Chris

[Darby Weaver]

Darby, thanks for your great posts man !!! really helpful ! .. when you were solving the TS section , does the ticket show you that the problem has been solved when u do the changes? , i mean , does it " flash" or give u a note that the network is up again or the service is okay now? , or you just apply/fix the configuration that you think it might be the problem and hope that this will fix it?.

Now after reading about the new v4 CCIE R&S .. i think i should wait a lil bit before studying again for the exam .. or should i save the time and start studying the CCIE SP track?, i'm not really sure , what do u think Darby?

Cheers,
Sam.

Sam,

I was told I should not discsuss the details of the event I attended so I have to respectfully refrain from answering any direct questions concerning my own experiences since I'm totally unsure what is considere NDA and what is not.

I will tell you we did have 17th inch monitors if my memory serves me correctly and I can also tell you that we had that online help everyone else seems to be commenting on so vigorously. I'm pretty sure I commented on it in my feedback and if I didn't then hindsight is 20/20 because I don't remember caring much for it at the time. My mind was elsewhere.

I did go to work all day, leave immediately, flew direct from Orlando to Seattle in time to get to the hilton check in, pay them, get a small sandwich to eat, get some quick two hours sleep if that is what you might call it, check out, make it to the test center a little too early, waited attended the offering, thougoughly enjoyed the company of my hosts, and then left a little later than the rest of the people who also came way out of their way (I think all others were West Coast), and then immediately caught a cab back to the airport, opted for the $150.00 First Class upgrade for the return trip, those big Captain's Chairs were just too tempting to my own tired eyes that were way too exhausted (I paid for direct non-stop flights coming and going - Alaskan Airlines) to even consider anything less. And I made it back to Orlando at about 7am local time and back to work by 8 something am which is earlier than I'd normally have made it to the office (I take calls from the house, attend Voice and Video Conferences from my house and everything whenever I need them).

So to say most things were a blur would be an understatement. I was moving from point to point like no one's busines.

So I think that's all I can safely say without taking a chance and saying too much that might remotely be considered NDA somehow.

[Darby Weaver]

I will say this, at least in RTP they have upgraded the R&S pods with 24"
LCD wide sceens! It was nice, but I would still be nice to have 2
monitors. With the TS section you will have a lot of CRT sessions open.
There is no Comm Server in the T&S section. (I hope that does not break NDA,
as that is not what I want to do.)

HTH,
Chris

[zcipher]

I think that the value is not in whether those big companies will use your certification or not, we know they care more about the value of their quarterly report than what their employees can do or even about the quality of work their employees are delivering to the customers... It's all about the bottom line.

But I think that the network side of IT is moving away from that, and you can already look around and see that the most skilled among us (not necessarily the most certified) are moving to small companies where their work reflects the reputation of the company, and everyone's mouths get fed based on the quality of their work. I can tell you now, all the people that I worked with 5 years ago that possessed extraordinary talent are not there any more. They either own their own company or work for a company that is owned by one of them. Myself included, actually, but some of the guys I'm referring to here could work circles around me on a router.

I realize that even smaller companies can benefit from your certification and will sometimes have to hire people who can only do it on paper, but the field is tightening. And being able to obtain a super hard certification absolutely DOES matter, and people know. I guarantee you, if my company were to look to hire a CCIE who passed the new lab, they'd know that this guy's probably worth printing up an offer letter and taking it to the interview just to make sure we get an offer in to him quickly. On the other hand, if a CCIE in the 19000-21000 range were to submit an application, he'd not get the same instant respect the other guy would get. And, of course, if someone has their number in the 3000's, he probably doesn't even have to do an interview LOL. Unless he's taken a 10 year break to sell hot dogs at Disney World, there's probably not much to ask a guy who at one time had more RFC's memorized than most of us have read.

That turned into quite a rant. Not even sure it was on topic, sorry about that.

[n00b13]

Agree with most of the above. OEQ has no place in a "practical" exam.

As for my last 3 hours I had my whole lab finished by then. Spent the next two hours verifying where I made three changes. Last hour made one more check where I made no changes. Did my changes help? Did they do me worse? I dont care.

My point being is make sure you have time to check everything.

[MPLS]

I agree too. If OEQ are in practical lab than whats the point of CCIE written exam? just to charge $350? They could make the OEQ part of the written exam instead.

My personal opinion is that its just a part of their business doctrine. Though I may be wrong

[n00b13]

I dont think that would work. I would suggest about half the people that sit & pass written would subsequently book a lab date and attempt that.

The rationale of OEQ is to weed out dumpers. People will still dump the written regardless. Also if OEQ were done with every written, when would they be marked? OEQ in the lab can be marked when the proctor in the next test centre comes online and marks the practical sections, like they always have been.

[Darby Weaver]

I'm saying no more written for recertification at all.

Originally the CCIE Written was the "Disriminator" to weed out those who were unready.

Then the OEQ.

Now the Troubleshooting.

It is evolving as a process.

[n00b13]

Well... The written was there for over a decade.

Before OEQ came in.

OEQ was in for about three months before they decided to introduce something else.

Make your own decisions from that.

[Geptek]

Failed my 1st attempt yesterday. My opinion, while trying not to break NDA:

OEQ was okay. A well prepared candidate will breeze through this. I got 100%. Then again, maybe i was just lucky...

Troubleshooting section was overwhelming to me. (Maybe that's because it was the 1st section of my lab - hadn't really 'settled'). The questions were like real-world tickets (short and vague...), but the volume of devices to 'eliminate' per ticket (some), and the sheer number of tickets, were just too much for me to finish in 2 hours. My advice: touch-and-go. Solutions to the tickets were usually on the surface, and relatively simple; i just realized it too late.

Config section: it's true - it's actually a full lab to be done in 5.5 hours. Questions are however straight forward. (IMHO, trick questions would have made the lab not just hard, but impossible, to finish). To finish this section on time, you need to type as you think, and i mean 'type like a Hollywood-movie hacker'.... I'd however advise that before you start this section, you ensure that the initial configs on devices are 'correct' and notify the proctor of any problems in time. Mine looked like someone else had finished a different lab, and i'd been given those devices to reconfigure. The initial configs/IPs didn't match the diagrams, and the diagrams were also confusing. I asked the proctor about it, he tried to make a few changes, but eventually gave up and asked us to make the corrections ourselves. I don't blame the proctor; he was actually quite nice and helpful. But making these corrections wasted valuable time.

(Am i breaking NDA? Sadikhov admin can help me edit my post if thinks i am breaking NDA. )

Looking back, i realize there was no way i could have been prepared for this lab. To the last day, i kept practicing concepts (thinking HARD), instead of practicing extreme speed (thinking and typing FAST). During the lab, i knew all the concepts, i knew i could solve the tasks, and, given a few extra hours, could have finished/passed the lab. To anyone who's preparing to do this lab: know all the concepts in the blueprint, and perfect finishing an 8 hour lab in 4 hours, without using Doc CD, and with very little verification. You have to be sure your configs/solutions are correct as you type, coz Doc CD and verification will waste valuable time.

Sorry for the length. I just want to give other candidates a fighting chance against this lab. I'll only attempt it again after a few (hundred) people have passed, some time next year.

[a61971]

Thanks Geptek

Really interresting story.

It seems to be the same tale.....

1. If one is not well prepared, you are blow out by OEQ's, TS and config section.

2. If you are perfectly prepared, it's ok....but everyone run's out of time..


It looks like you could have sleept though the old lab and still pass

I still haven't heard of anyone passing this new monster lab, Cisco must start to
worry...or what?? They have raised the pole to a level where everybody fails.

Not good news to me...I write with my right index finger:

b....search seach searh.......y.......search seach search.........e......

Good luck

A61971

Edited by a61971, 03 November 2009 - 11:09 PM.

[Geptek]

When i set out to achieve the CCIE R&S number, to me, passing the lab was a symbol of one's depth of knowledge and level of expertise/creativity. Now the lab has shifted shifted focus, and you need to be an extremely well-versed network admin (with a lot of caffeine in your blood ) to pass it.

In all fairness, it is good that the CCIE R&S is synchronized with the expectations of the current network industry. I just think Cisco went overkill on this. Then again, maybe that's what CCIE is all about: overkill.

[Darby Weaver]

Ivan's account of the lab:

Well, I have just finished yesterday my R&S v4.0 and I have nothing
positive to say about it except proctor was OK, which I cannot say for
the other guy last time I took an exam couple months ago. Who took a
lab in Brussels, knows what I'm talking about.
I have to agree with people who gave us reviews here so I don't have
nothing special to add. My opinion is that this new 4.0 is good way
for torturing people. OEQ was really easy and I think I'll pass that
part. Troubleshooting? Lovely stuff I've managed 8 of 11. I was so
into it that didn't have time to watch the countdown...after 2h system
just dumped me out of it. So, just for managing between those tasks in
electronic form and that lovely diagram...hmm...at least 15 minutes
take from 2 hours just on that. If the time was at least 2,5 hours it
will make some difference.
And finally, configuration part. Hmm, those nice people from Cisco
really don't won't some new R&S CCIE people Totally stupid point
graduation. Just an example: triple redistribution between 3 protocols
- 3 points. BGP implementation - 3 points and the other task which is
literally ONE command under interface mode - 3 points. One easy
command. So, no more philosophy you have to know very well core topics
(SW, FR, IGP, BGP and MCast) and if you know them very well you are
good to go and DocCD can help you with other questions which didn't
have that much points. That was before. Now, you have to now
everything. Maybe two or three task with one command solution can get
you 6 points. Maybe you don't have to know BGP or IGP very well cause
question about DHCP can compensate it. And, not to mention managing in
those diagrams and tasks, moving windows around the screen, etc. etc.
So, in config part I've managed to finish BGP and maybe 2 questions
from QoS. Nothing on IP services and security.

Well, I'm very disappointed. I'm pretty sure that I will fail. If the
exam was like the one last time and with this level of knowledge, I'm
pretty sure that I would pass.

P.S.
I just checked the result and, of course, I failed.

Regards

[a61971]

Well ..Darby

You know everybody...have you heard of anyone passing this new beast?

Is Brussels know to be tough...that's my place..??

Regards

A61971

[chrcel]

And finally, configuration part. Hmm, those nice people from Cisco
really don't won't some new R&S CCIE people Totally stupid point
graduation. Just an example: triple redistribution between 3 protocols
- 3 points. BGP implementation - 3 points and the other task which is
literally ONE command under interface mode - 3 points. One easy
command.

Just a note from my experience. On my first attempt there were no OEQ and one command task would be 2 or 3 points. BUT those "complex" tasks would be 4 and some even 5 points. After they added OEQ Cisco have ran out of points to distribute between tasks and now regardless of what you're configuring it's 2-3 points. It should be noted that the complex tasks could have configuration consequences in other parts of the lab and by not getting them right you'll penalized on more that one task.
I'm not saying if it's good or bad. IMO it's how the lab is, if you want that certification you either take it or leave it.
Just my five cents.

Edited by chrcel, 04 November 2009 - 10:07 PM.

[Darby Weaver]

Hello all,

I'm gonna join the unlucky ones who failed the v4 lab exam r&s.
Yesterday i took my first attempt in Brussel.

The oeq's was fairly easy.

Then the hell began........troubleshooting section..
Ive read a lot of reviews concerning "time management" before i went to the
lab. I said to my self before i took the lab that i must spent at max 15
minutes on a troubleshooting ticket. I wouldnt be that stupid to spent more
time on a ticket..............?
First ticket, 15 minutes past, i found no solution but i thougt im almost
there.........25 minutes still not working but i'm almost there, 40 minutes
damn then i realised it that i was stupid!!!! still not working and lost 33%
of my time..... then a couple was easy and i fixed them in 10-15 minutes
each. But ofcourse there were still 3 tickets open at the end of the 2 hour
section (plus the first so i realised that that was the end of my lab).

But ok i wouldnt give up and thought lets do my best on the config section
so i be prepared better next time im gonna take the lab. (and YES i will do
that soon...)
L2 was easy.
IGP's werent that difficult also, but was a lot of work for just a couple of
points............ In the test labs i did for internetworkexpert i could
earn 3 times 3 points for the same as on the real lab 1 time 3 points.......
Its look like the put different questions all in one question and just for
that damn 3 points..
Next BGP.............also practised a lot before entering the lab ofcourse,
and i also has read a lot of tips that they say that you must read first the
whole question before start typing.,..... And yes ofcourse i didnt do that
also. I had configured the whole section (at least 3 different questions on
a internetworkexpertlab again put in 1 question) then i read the last line
of the question..........and yes i had to make some changes to all routers
again...

Advanced services wasnt that hard if you had time to read on the doccd. I
knew the technics and the commands but ofcourse the asked something special
so you had to look it up and that takes time. Some 3 point questions in
here was just 2 lines in config (that are easy points......) next time skip
BGP en add static routes en focus on the easy quick points ;-). The time was
far too less (i needed at least 1,5 hour extra to complete everything) so i
couldnt do all the tasks.

To make the story finishing i past the oeq and failed on the other 2.
If i stick to the rules i had learned before the lab maybe i made it i dont
know. But it was a good lesson for me.
I know i can succesfully beat the exam if i dont give up and study harder..
So thats what i'm doing right now.. I started today again with reading
doccd..
I'm planning to do the exam again in jan of feb 2010. And that time i dont
**** up!

Stefan

[Darby Weaver]

Ivan got his score report - Here's what he said:

I just have seen my score report. I don't know what to think now. Totally unexpected report.
I really don't understand the metod they use when they assigning points to exam. Does anybody know?
Topics that I was convinced I did correctly, they don't think so. Topics I know that I screwed, I got some points. Honestly, my score report is much worst than last time. OEQ? I was sure that I'll pass. Well, I was wrong
One more failure and I'll get frustrated and my motivation will start falling down.