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John Lockie

Lab Pics....

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I guess we can do a diff if you like but how do they look to you.

 

Same options.

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I got a change control in 16 minutes.

 

Prepping some gear for the VoIP Rollout.

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When enabled, native VLAN packets going out all IEEE 802.1Q trunk ports are tagged. When disabled, native VLAN packets going out all IEEE 802.1Q trunk ports are not tagged. You can use this command with the IEEE 802.1Q tunneling feature. This feature operates on an edge switch of a service-provider network and expands VLAN space by using a VLAN-in-VLAN hierarchy and tagging the tagged packets. You must use IEEE 802.1Q trunk ports for sending packets to the

service-provider network. However, packets going through the core of the service-provider network might also be carried on IEEE 802.1Q trunks. If the native VLANs of an IEEE 802.1Q trunks match the native VLAN of a tunneling port on the same switch, traffic on the native VLAN is not tagged on the sending trunk port. This command ensures that native VLAN packets on all IEEE 802.1Q trunk ports are tagged.

 

 

As far as I know you cannot use this command on a single vlan. It is a global command.

 

Let me know if you find a way. I'm speaking off the top of my head and I'm prepping to do some work tonight.

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Yes, I know how it goes on the 3560, but I was told the 6500 implementation is "different". That's why I edited my post to say I didn't have first hand.

 

Believe it or not, I work with HP 8200's in my network! Sucks =P

 

I hope you get to work with Nexus. The entire drive to CCIE for me is fueled by a desire to work in the Nexus marketplace. Cisco is breaking ground there big time....cutting edge stuff.

 

 

I've been working with Option 1 (4 Nexus 7010's in the Core), Option 2 (2 Nexus 7010's in the Core), or Option 3 (Upgrade the Sup-720's to 10G and consider VSS).

 

The tally is about $240k per Nexus as configured with discount applied and Smartnet.

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As always good stuff Darby....is there any equipment you DONT have? The list would be shorter... :lol:

 

John, I'm going to think about the 3560 tonite/tomorrow. What is your deadline for selling it and when will you find out from your friend? Where are you located BTW?

 

As far as the lower end switches, I totally agree. I still like my 2960G only because it's immaculate ( I bought it new ) and it's the only 1GIG Cisco switch I have. I have another 1GIG switch but it's a D-Link...(don't ask)

 

I would love to offload my 2900XL's and use whatever change I get to purchase something else. The 2950, I can still live with....that's legendary man!!!

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http://ciscosystems.com/en/US/docs/switches/lan/catalyst6500/ios/12.1E/native/command/reference/V1.html#wp1085463

 

 

vlan dot1q tag native

 

To enable dot1q tagging for all VLANs in a trunk, use the vlan dot1q tag native command. Use the no form of this command to clear the configuration.

 

vlan dot1q tag native

 

no vlan dot1q tag native

Syntax Description

 

This command has no arguments or keywords.

Defaults

 

Disabled

Command Modes

 

Global configuration

Command History

Release

 

Modification

 

12.1(11b)EX

 

 

Support for this command was introduced on the Catalyst 6500 series switches.

 

12.1(13)E

 

 

Support for this command on the Catalyst 6500 series switches was extended to the 12.1 E release.

 

Usage Guidelines

 

The vlan dot1q tag native command configures the switch to tag native VLAN traffic and admit only 802.1Q tagged frames on 802.1Q trunks, dropping any untagged traffic, including untagged traffic in the native VLAN.

 

Follow these configuration guidelines when configuring Layer 2 protocol tunneling:

 

•On all the service provider edge switches, you must enable spanning tree BPDU filtering on the 802.1Q tunnel ports by entering the spanning-tree bpdufilter enable command.

 

•Ensure that at least one VLAN is available for native VLAN tagging. If you use all the available VLANs and then enter the vlan dot1q tag native command, native VLAN tagging will not be enabled.

 

•On all the service provider core switches, enter the vlan dot1q tag native command to tag native VLAN egress traffic and drop untagged native VLAN ingress traffic.

 

•On all the customer switches, either enable or disable native VLAN tagging on each switch.

 

Note If this feature is enabled on one switch and disabled on another switch, all traffic is dropped; you must identically configure this feature on each switch.

Examples

 

This example shows how to enable dot1q tagging for all VLANs in a trunk:

 

Router(config)# vlan dot1q tag native

 

Router(config)#

 

Related Commands

 

show vlan dot1q tag native

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As always good stuff Darby....is there any equipment you DONT have? The list would be shorter... :lol:

 

John, I'm going to think about the 3560 tonite/tomorrow. What is your deadline for selling it and when will you find out from your friend? Where are you located BTW?

 

As far as the lower end switches, I totally agree. I still like my 2960G only because it's immaculate ( I bought it new ) and it's the only 1GIG Cisco switch I have. I have another 1GIG switch but it's a D-Link...(don't ask)

 

I would love to offload my 2900XL's and use whatever change I get to purchase something else. The 2950, I can still live with....that's legendary man!!!

 

 

You are probably correct - however I did give away or sell a lot of models "I no longer support".

 

:)

 

I bought them to learn them to some degree...

 

It helps me when I tell people something, I can be authoritative.

 

 

Now - this weekend I am hoping to work on my home racks and hopefully complete all the "final" Cisco racking and stacking activities.

 

I posted a list elsewhere.

 

I'll take new pics after my week long vacation. I am going to re-take the BCSI or Composite during this period if time permits - I'm supposed to be eligible for a small raise (2% or so) after I complete the CCIP.

 

I'm hoping the rule applies after I complete the CCNP-Wireless too.

 

Not sure about the re-cert for the CCVP or CCSP. But I may re-do them too.

 

Definitely doing the CCNA of each track.

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Whew!

 

FYI - My fully burdened 3845's take precisely 3 minutes to reboot.

 

One is now upgraded and operational.

 

Heading to the SRST VoIP Router (we use 2 3845's per site).

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You are probably correct - however I did give away or sell a lot of models "I no longer support".

 

:)

 

I bought them to learn them to some degree...

 

It helps me when I tell people something, I can be authoritative.

 

 

Now - this weekend I am hoping to work on my home racks and hopefully complete all the "final" Cisco racking and stacking activities.

 

I posted a list elsewhere.

 

I'll take new pics after my week long vacation. I am going to re-take the BCSI or Composite during this period if time permits - I'm supposed to be eligible for a small raise (2% or so) after I complete the CCIP.

 

I'm hoping the rule applies after I complete the CCNP-Wireless too.

 

Not sure about the re-cert for the CCVP or CCSP. But I may re-do them too.

 

Definitely doing the CCNA of each track.

 

I fear at some point, I won't be able to get my hands on the physical equipment that will allow me to further my knowledge... =(

 

They are financially and POWER wise out of reach....and I assume there are no simulators for Cisco's higher end products...

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notgoing2fail: couple days on the 3560 probably. I will ask the guy in a few days. If he doesn't want it, it's yours if you want to buy it.

 

I am in Los Angeles.

 

Darby, and the rest: http://www.johnpatricklockie.com/rmmylife/?p=334

 

The only thing I wonder on Cisco is this: does an access port in VLAN 1 TAG all traffic, or is VLAN 1 on an access port "untagged"? I am going to guess tagged based on my labs today. I cannot tell though.

 

HP is easy to find this out, it's in the configs.... =/

 

I would venture to say all access ports are untagged, and the **ONLY** time a frame is "untagged" in 802.1Q is when it hits a trunk configured with native VLAN that matches that tag.....and when "vlan dot1q tag native" has NOT been set globally.

 

IM going home...freaking burned out, and ready for Lakers (if I don't get home after the game)

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I updated my lab and started doing some clean up so I figured I'd post my latest stuff.

 

I do need to pick up a rack mountable power strip.

 

I'm interested in two 3560's with NO inline power. Once I get those, I'm going to swap out the behemoth 2924XL switch that's in the middle of the rack.

But I'm starting to get cash strapped so the 3560's are going to have to wait a little while.

 

I also would like to pick up a 2811 down the road....

 

 

Let me know if you have any questions....

 

rack.png

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Very nice. What all is that? Looks like 2600's in there? With some 2511 and maybe 3620?

 

I need to clean my setup, cause I have a cluster of wires. But it works. HAHAH

 

As you are experiencing it seems that you really need the L3 switches for CCNP too :-) You might be able to snipe a 24 port cheaply on e-bay...

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Very nice. What all is that? Looks like 2600's in there? With some 2511 and maybe 3620?

 

I need to clean my setup, cause I have a cluster of wires. But it works. HAHAH

 

As you are experiencing it seems that you really need the L3 switches for CCNP too :-) You might be able to snipe a 24 port cheaply on e-bay...

 

 

Thanks...

 

There's four 2620's down there and two 2620XM's. The reason the bottom two 2620XM's aren't mounted yet is that I'm going to order the upgrade kit to upgrade the memory/ram to 256/48....

 

Yes, that's a 3620 acting as my frame relay switch. The 2511 yup.... my two 3550's aren't adequate, it seems I need another set of L3 switches.

 

It was a mess earlier today so I decided to start cleaning up.

 

Actually I looked at your lab equipment and we actually have very very close to the same stuff....

Edited by notgoing2fail

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Except all my routers are 3725's and I have 1 3825. My backbone is 1x1841 and 2x2620xm

 

And....of course, the 3560's =P

 

So basically, we have the same FR switch, and the same access server! LOL :P

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Except all my routers are 3725's and I have 1 3825. My backbone is 1x1841 and 2x2620xm

 

And....of course, the 3560's =P

 

So basically, we have the same FR switch, and the same access server! LOL :P

 

 

Hmm I thought it was closer than that! I remember looking at your list and thought we had almost the same stuff...

 

You have 1841, I have 1811.... (not the same model but same family)

 

You have two 3550's right? So do i...

 

I hope to have two 3560's one day....

 

2511 and 3620 yes.....

 

we both have TWO 2620XM's....

 

What about L2 switches? I have one 2950 and one 2960.....

 

 

But I have no 3725's at all and you have like 10 of those! LOL....

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But I have no 3725's at all and you have like 10 of those! LOL....

 

I only have 5! And 1 3825!

 

The CCIE lab only requires 6 routers + 3 backbone routers (9 routers). You can build an entire lab with 10 routers and 4 switches. The "10th" router would be a 3640 with modules for reverse telnet (access server) and FR switch!

 

Also, I don't use any 2900 series switches in the lab. Only 3500, and only 4 total. Actually, I currently have a 5th 8 port 3560 "diamond" configurations.

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I only have 5! And 1 3825!

 

The CCIE lab only requires 6 routers + 3 backbone routers (9 routers). You can build an entire lab with 10 routers and 4 switches. The "10th" router would be a 3640 with modules for reverse telnet (access server) and FR switch!

 

Also, I don't use any 2900 series switches in the lab. Only 3500, and only 4 total. Actually, I currently have a 5th 8 port 3560 "diamond" configurations.

 

 

Before I really got into this, people saying CCIE labs were around $10-12K worth if you wanted to study for CCIE. I don't really see that you have to spend all that much...

 

It seems within reach.....the 3560's are the only devices that really up the ante on the price....everything else can be had pretty cheaply on eBay....

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Well, let's figure this out....

 

-----------------------------

ROUTERS/SWITCHES

-----------------------------

6 x 3725 = $250/ea, $1,500/ext

2 x 3550 = $300/ea, $600/ext

1 x 3640 = $125/ea, $125/ext

2 x 3560 = $1,200/ea, $2,400/ext

3 x 2621XM = $165/ea, $495/ext

_____________________________

$5,120.00

 

 

-----------------------------

MODULES

-----------------------------

11 x WIC1T = $35/ea, $385/ext

1 x NM16A = $250/ea, $250/ext

2 x NM4A/S = $60/ea, $120/ext

_____________________________

$755.00

 

 

-----------------------------

CABLES

-----------------------------

9 x DCE/DTE = $5/ea, $45/ext

28 x STRAIGHT = $2/ea, $56/ext

2 x CROSSOVER 1' = $1/ea, $2/ext

2 x OCTAL 6' = $25/ea, $50/ext

_____________________________

$153.00

 

TOTAL: $6,028.00

 

This is an estimate, based on prices I paid and prices I see out there. You can easily get about 3-5% discount for buying it all at once.

 

So I would say a working CCIE rack would cost you between $5,500.00 and $6,500.00. The only thing I did not add on here is the web power switch which is $150. That switch enables you to remotely power the routers. I use Digital Loggers unit for this.

 

This is actually very useful information for any of you guys looking to build racks out.

 

Note: if you are willing to spend more you can go with 1841 ISR's (currently on the R&S CCIE blueprint)...but those are $800/each. I have 1 in my lab, along with a 3825 mostly for IOS validation purposes. That 3825 along is $2,500+....

 

Now, you need to figure energy consumption too. It's not cheap to fire this puppy up. On top of that if you want to have remote access you figure the cost of an internet line, and just use dynamic DNS to access (no static IP).

 

If you are getting $4.50/hr to operate this baby (renting it out) then your break even point on hardware is 2 months, or 1222 hours of operation. Not taking in to account power costs! After that, it's almost pure profit. So when you asked earlier about "is it profitable" to run a rack rental business I would say YES. You need capital. But for $60k you can build TEN racks....thus multiply your profits by 10. That is, assuming you can keep 10 racks rented out at a high capacity....

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Let's say you break even on the equipment after a few months of operating.

 

If you have 10 racks being rented out 16 hours a day that is 160 hours of billing. At $4/hr that is $640/day. Even if you have operating expenses at $40/day (power and internet, and this is probably HIGH estimate) you are pulling down $600/day in income.

 

Now, 10 racks at 16 hours means you have 20 guys logging in a day. Is this high or low? I have no idea. I think it is probably high. Even if you had half that it's $320/day with operating expenses at $20, leaving you with $300 day income. That's $2,100/week or $4,200 every two weeks....$109,200 a YEAR.....for what? Not much.

 

Pay the tax man of course. But if you use PAYPAL it's easy to get around this probably??? I am not endorsing this, I would always pay my taxes. Just sayin'

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Let's say you break even on the equipment after a few months of operating.

 

If you have 10 racks being rented out 16 hours a day that is 160 hours of billing. At $4/hr that is $640/day. Even if you have operating expenses at $40/day (power and internet, and this is probably HIGH estimate) you are pulling down $600/day in income.

 

Now, 10 racks at 16 hours means you have 20 guys logging in a day. Is this high or low? I have no idea. I think it is probably high. Even if you had half that it's $320/day with operating expenses at $20, leaving you with $300 day income. That's $2,100/week or $4,200 every two weeks....$109,200 a YEAR.....for what? Not much.

 

Pay the tax man of course. But if you use PAYPAL it's easy to get around this probably??? I am not endorsing this, I would always pay my taxes. Just sayin'

 

 

To answer both your posts. Well the first one, good job, that is a damn fine job listing the equipment at today's prices. I've been on eBay for months now and those are pretty accurate. I did however forget about cable costs (because I have my own, and way too many). It looks like I still have quite a few more devices to obtain, not that I am trying to build a CCIE rack. Not the least bit right now, way too early. But what is it about the 1841 that is required by CCIE lab? Is my 1811 not suffice?

 

 

I've been dreaming about rack rentals lately. I was playing around with the numbers too and if you can GET people to rent some time, it seems like a no brainer business. The key are a couple things:

 

1) Financing to get the equipment

2) Datacenter to host the equipment (not a problem as I know of a one)

3) Developing and designing an interface for end users to access the systems automatically after paying for their hourly slot, as well as kicking them off when time is up.

And not allowing the same account info to log back in. (I'm a clever enough programmer that I can probably figure this out but it would take time)

4) Marketing. Getting people to actually use your stuff!! (let's face it, I suck at marketing, I do not know how to market)

5) Making sure your equipment is up to the latest CCIE standards, workbooks etc etc...

 

 

Other than that, it seems pretty feasible. I don't see applications like GNS3 killing the rack rental market. And the great thing is, it can make money for you while you sleep. Someone halfway around the world could be logging in their 4-6 hours while you sleep...

 

Anyways, even your conservative numbers are very good....I wonder why there aren't more rack rental businesses out there...

Edited by notgoing2fail

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Not sure.

 

We are probably missing something =P

 

I think the web access is the most critical part. Getting users access through the web. But frankly, this is probably not necessary. The web power switch is enough to power cycle switches.

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Not sure.

 

We are probably missing something =P

 

I think the web access is the most critical part. Getting users access through the web. But frankly, this is probably not necessary. The web power switch is enough to power cycle switches.

 

I'm gonna have to rent some rack time with a couple different vendors to see how they do it. I spent 3 years developing my own proprietary network management systems, I can't even go over how complicated that was.

 

Allowing web access for rack time has got to be pretty easy, I've just never seen what the process is for the industry....

 

We could be on to something eh??

 

Maybe Sadikhov's own rack rental business?? :lol:

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Let's say you break even on the equipment after a few months of operating.

 

If you have 10 racks being rented out 16 hours a day that is 160 hours of billing. At $4/hr that is $640/day. Even if you have operating expenses at $40/day (power and internet, and this is probably HIGH estimate) you are pulling down $600/day in income.

 

Now, 10 racks at 16 hours means you have 20 guys logging in a day. Is this high or low? I have no idea. I think it is probably high. Even if you had half that it's $320/day with operating expenses at $20, leaving you with $300 day income. That's $2,100/week or $4,200 every two weeks....$109,200 a YEAR.....for what? Not much.

 

Pay the tax man of course. But if you use PAYPAL it's easy to get around this probably??? I am not endorsing this, I would always pay my taxes. Just sayin'

 

Hi

 

From experience I can say that its very difficult to make a profit, I had six racks rented out almost fulltime and with energy and accomodation costs I didnt get enough ROI to keep it running.

 

Remember that 10 racks to a good standard will cost you cisca £30k to provision and that energy costs are very high, also you could not run this amount of equipment on a domestic supply. You would need effective AC as the heat generated is quite substantial.

 

Think before you jump!!

 

Mark

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Hi

 

From experience I can say that its very difficult to make a profit, I had six racks rented out almost fulltime and with energy and accomodation costs I didnt get enough ROI to keep it running.

 

Remember that 10 racks to a good standard will cost you cisca £30k to provision and that energy costs are very high, also you could not run this amount of equipment on a domestic supply. You would need effective AC as the heat generated is quite substantial.

 

Think before you jump!!

 

Mark

 

 

I assume your six racks were at a datacenter right?

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I assume your six racks were at a datacenter right?

 

All in a 600 square foot business unit in 42u racks with 5kw AC, still hotter than hell in there with everything running.

 

Unless you can charge a decent rate you don't stand a chance of making any money from it, most people buy workbooks and rack time from the same vendor.

 

The exceptions to that want everything so cheaply its unbelievable! the biggest issue for me was energy costs as they are very high in the UK.

 

Mark

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Oh I forgot! The web access thing is totally unecassary as you just allow telnet connections to one public IP and then let them jump to an AS and RPC from there, if they need a GUI they are in the wrong game :)

 

Mark

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Oh I forgot! The web access thing is totally unecassary as you just allow telnet connections to one public IP and then let them jump to an AS and RPC from there, if they need a GUI they are in the wrong game :)

 

Mark

 

 

Ok that's good to know as I've never really even see what and how a rack rental works.

 

The datacenter that I used to host equipment with never charged for power, it was all included in the monthly bill. And of course they took care of all the heat issues. I believe we were allowed 20 amps.

 

With that said, you're right, I would think that most students would use rack rentals from the same vendor that is dishing out workbooks and/or class room training. I guess they have the dibs on that.

 

You've been there done that so I take your business experience much more than my "theory"....

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Hi

 

When all six racks were running and the AC was running full belt it would all pull 70amp from a 100amp bar, insurge if multiple devices were running would go up to 90amp.

 

The running costs for a single pod was 0.22gbp ph and when your gross is only 0.90p ph and you have accomodation and equipment costs you can see that it leaves a very small net margin.

 

As with all business ideas you need to get the costs correct before you start and make sure that your target audience is large enough, Dynamips has pretty much killed rack rentals until they need L3 switching and most will just rent for that.

 

Mark

  • Upvote 1

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Hey MarkinManchester, thanks for the information. Sounds like you had quite an adventure.

 

Personally, I can assure you I would never dive without a lot more research. I would probably leverage one of our datacenters for this, but not without calculating cost per sq ft for utility. To me, the hardest thing to determine is how many clients one could get with such a service. The workbook vendors all have labs....but there is room for a cheaper guy I think.

 

You mention the web interface not being a big deal. I do agree, except in order to be competitive one would need to have a professional web portal. Personally, I see no use for this except to power on the equipment (or power cycle).

 

I want to raise an idea here though....because I agree about GNS3. What if somehow I could have hosted GNS3 that ties in to a layer 2 network....? First of all, would I be breaking GNU (I assume GNS is GNU) license to charge for such a thing? Secondly, would there be a market? Thirdly, would it be cheaper to run a hybrid lab vs. purely physical.....these are the things that make me wonder.

 

There is a good business model underneath all this talk.

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