51 replies to this topic

[George Philip]

A students’ review of Narbik’s CCIE Boot Camp:

I recently attended the 5 day CIERS-I + Narbik’s 2.0 Boot Camp held in
Richardson, TX; this class is part of the Cisco 360 Program. I'll
provide some highlights from my experience on the 5 days I spent with
Narbik.

Initially, I was drawn to Narbik's CCIE Boot camp after having read
about his non-conventional way of teaching the CCIE Lab exam topics.
By that I mean, Narbik's CCIE Boot camp does not use power point
slides, printed materials, or pre-made diagrams. Instead he relies on
a whiteboard and hand drawn diagrams to teach and explain concepts.
Using whiteboard diagrams in his class, instead of power point slides,
set Narbik apart from the other offerings to me. I draw a lot of
diagrams when doing labs and was intrigued by a teaching method that
used a similar concept. Not a decision maker, but I also found posts
that said Narbik has a savant like memory for the CLI. Needless to
say, I was a little skeptical anyone could memorize enough of the IOS
CLI to teach at a CCIE level.

With that said, here is my experience from the boot camp:

Day 1: Introduction, Switching and Frame-relay. Narbik’s CCIE boot
camp classes start at 9AM and goes until at least 9PM. We started out
with introductions and then jumped into CCIE level basics on security
and QoS for the switching platform. Once the lecture was done, as
promised using only the whiteboard and hand drawn diagrams, we looked
through the labs and started with switching. After a brief break for
lunch, the Frame-relay lectures on configurations and complexities
kept the class lively. Narbik gave us the labs pertaining to the
frame-relay topics covered after the lecture. Even on day 1, the
class was intense with a lot of topics covered in detail.

Day 2: OSPF and EIGRP. Narbik covers OSPF and EIGRP with such
thoroughness that I ended up with 4 pages of hand written notes and 2
pages worth of typed notes. This even though I felt I had a pretty
good understand of both of those topics. He covered the usual stuff
but then pulled out “ninja” techniques and demonstrated behaviors
within these IGPs I did not expect. During the lectures, he asks the
students to setup a basic infrastructure and do debugging to
illustrate the concepts even further. Narbik’s lectures are very
interactive, he asks if you understood what was just explained and if
someone brings up a question, he re-explains it until everyone fully
grasps the concepts. During his explanations, he will re-draw
diagrams or modify existing ones to illustrate points.

Day 3: QoS - I went in very unsure of many concepts in this area.
Once he started his lectures, it was clear many of the students were
in the same situation as I was. There were so many diagrams and notes
written on the white board by lunch time, the board was black. We had
to enlist the facilities staff to bring in industrial white board
cleaner, wet wipes, and a roll of napkins to clean the board. Again
my notes were filling page after page. He had to stop after every
topic and explain it in at least 3 different ways so everyone
understood it. I can now safely say, QoS is not as scary as I made it
out to be. I think class went until 10 or 11 on day 3.

Day 4: RIP, BGP, MPLS - The grueling pace was starting to take its
toll, however, Narbik found a way to make RIP interesting. BGP was
covered thoroughly and generated quite a few diagrams and questions.
MPLS was a topic almost the entire class had listed as a weak point.
Narbik explained MPLS in a way a kindergartener would be able to
understand. Then he proceeded to draw out a diagram and explain the
process step by step. Again, very through and Narbik's animated way
of teaching made complex concepts seem simple.

Day 5: Multicast v4/v6, questions, wrap-up - Narbik covers
Multicasting from a practical point of view. This made it very easy
to see what the different components of Multicasting contribute
towards the overall infrastructure. Once this was done, we discussed
a few other topics from the previous lectures and wrapped up for the
week. From looking around, everyone seemed to be in a daze from
information overload.

Narbik’s boot camp is designed to make the students an expert, not
just achieve the number. The lectures are geared towards teaching the
concepts and underlying fundamentals on CCIE Lab exam. It will push
you closer to passing the lab by enabling you to understand the
pitfalls and end-goals for seemingly minute details within the tasks.
This method of teaching also made me more confident about resolving
any scenario thrown in for the troubleshooting portion of the lab.
Each topic is covered in depth highlighting abnormal behaviors,
commands used to configure and change behaviors, hidden “features” and
alternative (non-conventional) ways to achieve desired behaviors.
Interactions among functions of IOS are covered in depth so the
student understands what each one does and why certain features have
to be used in tandem or configured through an AS. I’ve only listed
the high level topics in my review but Narbik covers the full suite of
CCIE lab topics throughout the lectures.

The most surprising aspect of the class was his style of teaching;
this was not covered by any of the previous materials I found before
deciding to attend. Narbik style of teaching the CCIE boot camp makes
him the most animated and entertaining trainer I have ever met. He
incorporates jokes and anecdotes into every one of his lectures. He
manages to keep the energy level steady from day 1 to day 5. There
were moments where the whole class was laughing so hard we had to take
a break. He spends most of the 12 hour class on his feet during
lectures and walking around to do real-time explanations during labs.
Some concepts I had difficulty grasping through reading and bullet
point led explanations related to QoS (Routing and Switching),
Security, IGP/EGP and Multicasting were presented with humor and made
so rudimentary that I walked away ready to tackle any lab scenario. I
plan to re-take the class just for the entertainment value.

Throughout the class, Narbik provides his contact information and
requests we contact him with any questions during or after the class
regardless of time. His philosophy is that the real relationship with
the students begins on the last day of the boot camp and continues
even after getting the coveted number. Narbik also provided a study
plan geared towards passing the CCIE Lab exam. If I can muster the
discipline to follow his plan, my number is not far away.

Narbik’s CCIE boot camp is not for the faint of heart. You MUST know
the basics at a CCNP or higher level before attending. His classes
are not designed for those who have a passing interest in the CCIE.
It is designed for the seriously committed and will stretch your
knowledge of the Cisco IOS and routing/switching concepts; it may even
humble your understanding of the IOS and CCIE topics. You WILL learn
something new about every Cisco CCIE Lab Blueprint topic!

After attending this class, I can confirm Narbik teaches only using
the whiteboard and hand drawn diagrams. Narbik’s approach to teaching
the CCIE is unlike any of the other classes I’ve taken over my 2+
years of studying. There is no single source of materials for earning
the CCIE certification. As part of the current crop of CCIE
candidates, I feel blessed with the availability of high quality
materials from well reputed vendors. The best way to pass the lab
exam is to use a combination of the highest regarded materials as
study tools. Each one contributes to a niche of learning.

However, I highly recommend every CCIE candidate attend at least one
of Narbik’s classes. I’ve been able to clearly understand some of the
concepts that eluded me from books, DocCD and other materials. At the
very least, attending Narbik’s class will give you an excellent gauge
of your readiness to attempt the lab exam.

Bottom line, if you want to pass the CCIE Lab, attend a boot camp by Narbik.

As far as Narbik’s ability to recall IOS commands from memory - It’s
official, Narbik is an extension of the Cisco IOS Command reference.

Review by George Philip.
gphilip88@gmail.com

[notgoing2fail]

Wow, what a great write up and very timely as I was just reading another members blog on Narbik.

I am now beginning to understand who this guy is.

One thing you forgot to mention is what seems like his very very affordable class. Unlike other courses that are extremely expensive,
I hear he is fair and affordable....and you can retake his courses again at no charge correct?

Like they say in football, the road to the superbowl goes through the best team with home field advantage.

It looks like the road to CCIE goes through Narbik....

[a61971]

Thanks for this fantastic review.

I would love to sit his class.

Unfortunately he don't have bootcamp in my area of the world.

[Darby Weaver]

I was asked to be a guest speaker at the CCIE Expo in Philly at the end of the month.

If anyone is going, I am going to try to attend...

Let's make history.

Good story!

[notgoing2fail]

I was asked to be a guest speaker at the CCIE Expo in Philly at the end of the month.

If anyone is going, I am going to try to attend...

Let's make history.

Good story!

Oh man, I was just in Philly for something else recently. It was at the Loews Hotel. I was just coincidentally looking at the CCIE Flyer website regarding the expo. I thought it was taking place in Delaware? I would most definitely like to meet you, the drive to Philly is about 2 and half hours away from me which really isn't too bad. Do you have more info about how the expo is arranged? I'm concerned about the pricing....I'm not in the position anymore to pay a hefty price....

[raaki_88]

thank you for the write up but we doesnt have his bootcamps here

[Darby Weaver]

I think the price is $1499.00 - but go to the CCIEflyer.com and check.

I'm going to request the time off on Monday. I'm taking May 31st - June 4th off - for a total of 9 days that are MINE!!!

Then I already asked for the July 4th Week off and it is approved!!!

So that's two weeks. (I already took two weeks off in February - look at my lab pics).

I still have another 4 days on the books and get 9 more day (1/2 year) off before the end of the year.

So I can still squeeze in 2-3 weeks off for personal time.

Not bad if you can get it.

I've not even asked for comp time...

[Darby Weaver]

thank you for the write up but we doesnt have his bootcamps here

I thought he did offer one the region?

[Darby Weaver]

It might be in Delaware.

It is supposed to be at the Nemours Hotel (caught my eye - I work for Nemours Children's Clinic).

It's not the same apparently.

Coincidence...


Anyway, Philly and Wilmington are a drive away - like what 20 minutes? Not even that?

I just drove it this afternoon on my way to the airport.

Nice quiet little drive on 95 North.

[notgoing2fail]

It might be in Delaware.

It is supposed to be at the Nemours Hotel (caught my eye - I work for Nemours Children's Clinic).

It's not the same apparently.

Coincidence...


Anyway, Philly and Wilmington are a drive away - like what 20 minutes? Not even that?

I just drove it this afternoon on my way to the airport.

Nice quiet little drive on 95 North.

Yeah they are about 20 mins away. I'm going to have to spend whatever cash I have left on my lab....

Hopefully there will be something in NYC one day that you can join, then it'd be a short drive for me...

[raaki_88]

I thought he did offer one the region?

it got canceled

[icekingfly]

I still remain sceptical of boot camps and things like this

This whole 'you must attend his class if you want to pass' is slightly tedious, nice bit of sales promotion perhaps?

and boot camps in general are far too expensive for what is essentially 5 days of work, I might as well buy some kit.

This is my opinion of course

[notgoing2fail]

I still remain sceptical of boot camps and things like this

This whole 'you must attend his class if you want to pass' is slightly tedious, nice bit of sales promotion perhaps?

and boot camps in general are far too expensive for what is essentially 5 days of work, I might as well buy some kit.

This is my opinion of course

I'm 50/50 on this.

I've never taken any kind of bootcamp. All of my studies have been 100% on my own. The internet/blogs/web forums are my school. The information is out there if you want to put in the time to seek them. I've also spent money on books and equipment, everything is self-funded, self-taught....

I suppose I can't really comment too much on vendors bootcamps since I've never taken them but I have a hard time believing people can go to a CCNP bootcamp and suddenly become CCNP's. Same for CCNA's. What they are doing is cramming the info into you. Maybe they know what's on the test and only teaching you those topics?



As for the CCIE, I've heard really cool things about some of the "teachers" out there. If the price is right and I have time, I think I would do it more out of curiosity and to seek new ways of thinking from other individuals. If you are spending time with the right people, I think that's an investment worth looking into....not so much thinking of it as a bootcamp....

[MadVillian]

I'm 50/50 on this.

I've never taken any kind of bootcamp. All of my studies have been 100% on my own. The internet/blogs/web forums are my school. The information is out there if you want to put in the time to seek them. I've also spent money on books and equipment, everything is self-funded, self-taught....

I suppose I can't really comment too much on vendors bootcamps since I've never taken them but I have a hard time believing people can go to a CCNP bootcamp and suddenly become CCNP's. Same for CCNA's. What they are doing is cramming the info into you. Maybe they know what's on the test and only teaching you those topics?



As for the CCIE, I've heard really cool things about some of the "teachers" out there. If the price is right and I have time, I think I would do it more out of curiosity and to seek new ways of thinking from other individuals. If you are spending time with the right people, I think that's an investment worth looking into....not so much thinking of it as a bootcamp....

The problem is most people go into a bootcamp "cold". You should go into the bootcamp already possessing most of the information. The bootcamp should only offer a refresher and/or add minor things that you may have missed in your studies. I'll caveat this a bit...there are some people who use a bootcamp as a starting point in their studies knowing that they will comeback toward the end as well. Obviously you need the means (company will pay, etc.) to do something like this but, it also works. For CCIE studies there is just waay to much information to have to know to realistically think a 5-10 day bootcamp is going to miraculously turn you into a CCIE. Use it as a gauge to see where you're at.

One of the CCIEs that I know said he knew he was ready when he took a bootcamp Scott Morris was teaching and didn't get anything new out of it. It wasn't that Scott was a bad teacher its just he knew the material really well. Keep in mind this guy had took many bootcamps over many years, and had attempted the lab 3 times by this time....so going to the bootcamp was a final validation.

Personally, I'm at the point where there are only a couple guys I would take a bootcamp from.

[notgoing2fail]

The problem is most people go into a bootcamp "cold". You should go into the bootcamp already possessing most of the information. The bootcamp should only offer a refresher and/or add minor things that you may have missed in your studies. I'll caveat this a bit...there are some people who use a bootcamp as a starting point in their studies knowing that they will comeback toward the end as well. Obviously you need the means (company will pay, etc.) to do something like this but, it also works. For CCIE studies there is just waay to much information to have to know to realistically think a 5-10 day bootcamp is going to miraculously turn you into a CCIE. Use it as a gauge to see where you're at.

One of the CCIEs that I know said he knew he was ready when he took a bootcamp Scott Morris was teaching and didn't get anything new out of it. It wasn't that Scott was a bad teacher its just he knew the material really well. Keep in mind this guy had took many bootcamps over many years, and had attempted the lab 3 times by this time....so going to the bootcamp was a final validation.

Personally, I'm at the point where there are only a couple guys I would take a bootcamp from.

Totally agree!!! Find out how good you really are if you think you are ready for the CCIE lab/written. I'm one to admit that I get excited too much and can assume I know too much when I really don't. That's why I try to slow myself down sometimes. But once I get 3-4 good solid years of Cisco work under my belt you know I'm going to be thinking CCIE! And knowing me, one of these camps will probably make me say, "Holy crapola I don't know jack!!!"

I've only recently starting learning who Scott Morris is.


I hope that when you DO obtain your CCIE, you will stick around. I know these CCIE guys have much better things to do than hang out at message forums. But it would be nice to have some that are really involved in the community and not just posting random blogs on their site here and there.....and replying back to occasionally....I'm sure they are all quite busy though....

[a61971]

Agree

Bootcamp is fun, but can only be the last spice on your home cooking ....

Edited by a61971, 30 May 2010 - 09:20 AM.

[icekingfly]

I understand what you guys are saying and on that front I agree its a very good way to polish of your study efforts

its just that I cannot justify the price of what is essentially a 'refresher'

But hey if I had the money I would jump at such an opportunity

Unfortunately it’s the opposite for me, I am in this so that one day I can get the money

[Darby Weaver]

Teachers don't pass. They motivate and help students gravitate towards a pass.

Some students may have an exceptional set of study habits.

Today is a time like none other as far as materials and blogs that are readily available.

With all that said...

A crafty student using blogs and notes like that of Ruhann, Yap, the Mind Maps, etc...

Using the blue print, the vendors blogs...

Umm...

I'd have to say mostly everything and every issue has probably been discussed at length and some blogs have better details and explanations than some vendors...


One of our members asked me about this privately - unfortunately the early years it was probably harder.

[MadVillian]

I understand what you guys are saying and on that front I agree its a very good way to polish of your study efforts

its just that I cannot justify the price of what is essentially a 'refresher'

But hey if I had the money I would jump at such an opportunity

Unfortunately it’s the opposite for me, I am in this so that one day I can get the money

I agree and I really feel for people that don't have the support of their company (free classes, etc.). Its really tough to go the CCIE without going to a class or two. With that being said look at it this way, the CCIE test itself cost $1400 just to take the test...if you don't live near a testing center add travel expenses. I know for me it cost $2,000 an attempt. So, I guess you have to weigh if its cheaper to take a class (I know a lot of bootcamps offer specials now) vs. attempting the lab. Trust me there's a reason the AVERAGE pass rate is 2.5 attempts (v4 is probably higher). You need to gain any and every advantage you can to pass the lab. A $2,000 - $3,000 bootcamp is a drop in the bucket when if you pass you'll probably make that back EASILY after your first yr of being a CCIE.

There was one guy I was talking to during lunch at my attempt and I asked him who he was using for study materials and his reply was "Oh I'm not using anyone...I'm just doing self study". It was his FORTH attempt and he was done before lunch because he didn't pass troubleshooting. Hmmm...4 x 1400 = $5600....thats not even including travel....seems to me he probably could've taken a class or two for that price.....I'm just saying....

[icekingfly]

I agree and I really feel for people that don't have the support of their company (free classes, etc.). Its really tough to go the CCIE without going to a class or two. With that being said look at it this way, the CCIE test itself cost $1400 just to take the test...if you don't live near a testing center add travel expenses. I know for me it cost $2,000 an attempt. So, I guess you have to weigh if its cheaper to take a class (I know a lot of bootcamps offer specials now) vs. attempting the lab. Trust me there's a reason the AVERAGE pass rate is 2.5 attempts (v4 is probably higher). You need to gain any and every advantage you can to pass the lab. A $2,000 - $3,000 bootcamp is a drop in the bucket when if you pass you'll probably make that back EASILY after your first yr of being a CCIE.

There was one guy I was talking to during lunch at my attempt and I asked him who he was using for study materials and his reply was "Oh I'm not using anyone...I'm just doing self study". It was his FORTH attempt and he was done before lunch because he didn't pass troubleshooting. Hmmm...4 x 1400 = $5600....thats not even including travel....seems to me he probably could've taken a class or two for that price.....I'm just saying....

your totally right mate, Of course I am talking under the assumption that I will pass first time of course (please forgive my overconfidence/arrogance but in my opinion I have no choice but to think like this in order to stand a chance)

however I am not going to ignore the fact that there is a statistically proven pass rate and its not looking so great, and if anything the odds are stacked against myself as I am 100% reliant on my own self study, I have no backing from my employers (not that I want any favours from them) and I have no kit currently. In fact my complete arsenal of study materials currently consist of a few video nuggets and Wendells exam certification guide

That said I am subtly swayed by what you guys have said and if needed I will surely venture in such a method....regardless its still early days for me

[n00b13]

Best thing about bootcamps is you get 5 days of study with no pricks ringing you all the time. If they do you say "piss off, Im on training" and be done with it.

[Gunga_Jim]

Narbik's bootcamp costs $2995. It's only $1499 if you've been on one of his other bootcamps (eg: Security, SP etc).
The bootcamp for me would be the kind of motivational tool for me. How many guys we know that went on the bootcamps and have passed (ChancesD, Noob13, CiscoMaster, etc) and then there were guys like me who said we would self-study and use Dynamips. Now these guys are earning triple figures or at least are on a good wage and have left guys like me behind still bitching about "The CCIE program is messed up" or "V4 is too hard now!"
If i had just taken the bootcamp and been more dedicated i would have been up there with those guys. So enough is enough.

PS: I know CiscoMaster never took a bootcamp but he bought the equipment and was dedicated to the cause

[raf]

Narbik's bootcamp costs $2995. It's only $1499 if you've been on one of his other bootcamps (eg: Security, SP etc).
The bootcamp for me would be the kind of motivational tool for me. How many guys we know that went on the bootcamps and have passed (ChancesD, Noob13, CiscoMaster, etc) and then there were guys like me who said we would self-study and use Dynamips. Now these guys are earning triple figures or at least are on a good wage and have left guys like me behind still bitching about "The CCIE program is messed up" or "V4 is too hard now!"
If i had just taken the bootcamp and been more dedicated i would have been up there with those guys. So enough is enough.

PS: I know CiscoMaster never took a bootcamp but he bought the equipment and was dedicated to the cause

True

i also passed ccna and cncp same time as those guy. Only thing is i did not have experience as those guy.i needed time ot self study to understnad things bcause of lack of experiences, now i understand more, but problem with ccie exam is they keep adding stuff, which make CCIE R&S not harder but complex. More people pass it does not mean that they have to make new stuff to make it harder, so it like study never ending becuas eof new stuff

[pappyaar]

Dear Gunga, your dedication and timing matters and not the bootcamp. Frankly, if you study carefully, meeting all the requirements of CCIE lab prep, you dont need a bootcamp in the first place. You want to take CCIE bootcamp from those who havent passed the current version ? they are preparing you for V4 and still they are not upto facing the v4 lab themselves ?

Why not any of these vendors (Narbik, Brians etc) come forward, attempt the lab, clear the number and prove to everyone they are worth it ? or else why take a bootcamp from someone like those ?

Bootcamp is usually defined as a last step of prep just before you attempt the lab ? so you are getting your final tips from those who havent site the V4 lab themselves ?

[Darby Weaver]

The "BEST" thing about a CCIE bootcamp is the time away to actually study for the lab.

That's pretty invaluable to some folks.

[MadVillian]

Hey Darby, did you say Narbik told you he has had 7 people take his class and pass the R&S Lab in the last month?

[icekingfly]

Narbik's bootcamp costs $2995. It's only $1499 if you've been on one of his other bootcamps (eg: Security, SP etc).
The bootcamp for me would be the kind of motivational tool for me. How many guys we know that went on the bootcamps and have passed (ChancesD, Noob13, CiscoMaster, etc) and then there were guys like me who said we would self-study and use Dynamips. Now these guys are earning triple figures or at least are on a good wage and have left guys like me behind still bitching about "The CCIE program is messed up" or "V4 is too hard now!"
If i had just taken the bootcamp and been more dedicated i would have been up there with those guys. So enough is enough.

PS: I know CiscoMaster never took a bootcamp but he bought the equipment and was dedicated to the cause

Wow does this Narbik guy pay his students to go on different forums and advertise his boot camp or something jeez

the general gist of what im reading is boot camp or fail

what about good old fashioned dedicated hard work?

[Darby Weaver]

Hey Darby, did you say Narbik told you he has had 7 people take his class and pass the R&S Lab in the last month?

He told me 6 of 7 students of his passed the CCIE Lab v4.0 on the first try and the 7th passed afterwards. I think he mentioned they had taken the OEQ.

He did not tell me names.

For me... names help a lot else it might sound like irrational propoganda and non-verified advertising.

Guessing that most of Narbik's students soon go on to rave about how his class helped them pass the lab - I'm sure we can find the testimonials easy enough.

I think he specifically was careful not to mention any had passed since the demise of the OEQ.

[Darby Weaver]

Wow does this Narbik guy pay his students to go on different forums and advertise his boot camp or something jeez

the general gist of what im reading is boot camp or fail

what about good old fashioned dedicated hard work?

Contrar - Not many people at all lately are raving about a bootcamp helping them to pass a lab.

I always look at a bootcamp to help one get over 5-10 points worth of self-realization. Not to mention time just to get away and study a little.

[MadVillian]

He told me 6 of 7 students of his passed the CCIE Lab v4.0 on the first try and the 7th passed afterwards. I think he mentioned they had taken the OEQ.

He did not tell me names.

For me... names help a lot else it might sound like irrational propoganda and non-verified advertising.

Guessing that most of Narbik's students soon go on to rave about how his class helped them pass the lab - I'm sure we can find the testimonials easy enough.

I think he specifically was careful not to mention any had passed since the demise of the OEQ.

He should post the testimonials...I'm not say he's lying, I've never met him personally but, 6 of 7 guys passing v4 on the first time and a 7th passing shortly thereafter is pretty remarkable. Interestingly, I haven't heard of this group in any of the forums and email lists I monitor.

If you talk to him again, ask him if he's posted the testimonials....it benefits him (good marketing) and us as candidates (to see whats working).

If this is true I can surely get him some referrals to his class....heck I'd attend myself with that type of success...