19 replies to this topic

[mayjune]

Hi,
I am currently pursuing CCNA (Almost done). My aim is to get CCIE R&S and CCIE Security. I am Studying in college 3rd year, India.
My question is, What Difference as a fresher can I have if I do get (at-least) CCIE R&S before I pass out from my college (If not both)?

Am I treated differently then other CCIE as I don't have any Live experience? If yes, to what extent? Will I be treated like a CCNP till I get some 2-3 years of experience with same salary as of CCNP or only the post will be lower salary will be higher? As in would it really be advantageous of me doing CCIE as a fresher? Or is it better to get experience and then do CCIE?

What all things should I consider so that I pass CCIE, I am not afraid of failing it and giving it, but I don't wanna spend my whole life giving it either. What I mean is, what would be the right path to pursue these two.

I have thought of, CCNA, CCNP, CCNA Security, CCNS, CCIE R&S, CCIE Security.

Any pointers would be really appreciated. I know I am noob aiming so high, but then every CCIE out there was a noob once

Thank you.

[ComputerDude]

I would say try to gain some experience first while continuing to study diligently. You can't expect a company to have great faith in you if you don't have at least some relevant experience to back up your certifications.

I guess it would be akin to being a doctor that has no experience. Would you want this doctor treating you? There are some things you can't learn from a book.

[zoonyspaz]

You would just make your own life miserable to be honest. While getting the cert is a good idea , you need to honestly look at when you want to achieve these certs . I will not hire a CCIE who has zero experience . I infact know of a CCIE who has had a lot of trouble to get going. I feel sincerely that it will d you more harm than good to get an IE so early in your career. As someone already said get some solid experience in the areas you feel you are most suited for and then objectively think about what you want to do at that stage .... but experience is key.

Hope this helps.

[pappyaar]

Hi,
I am currently pursuing CCNA (Almost done). My aim is to get CCIE R&S and CCIE Security. I am Studying in college 3rd year, India.
My question is, What Difference as a fresher can I have if I do get (at-least) CCIE R&S before I pass out from my college (If not both)?

Am I treated differently then other CCIE as I don't have any Live experience? If yes, to what extent? Will I be treated like a CCNP till I get some 2-3 years of experience with same salary as of CCNP or only the post will be lower salary will be higher? As in would it really be advantageous of me doing CCIE as a fresher? Or is it better to get experience and then do CCIE?

What all things should I consider so that I pass CCIE, I am not afraid of failing it and giving it, but I don't wanna spend my whole life giving it either. What I mean is, what would be the right path to pursue these two.

I have thought of, CCNA, CCNP, CCNA Security, CCNS, CCIE R&S, CCIE Security.

Any pointers would be really appreciated. I know I am noob aiming so high, but then every CCIE out there was a noob once

Thank you.

Dear mayjune,

Its always good to dream, and live by them, but dreams should be realistic to some extent. Unless you are some extra ordinary genious, and if you dont follow any shortcuts, you are not passing any CCIE in your college days :-)

I know it sounds harsh, but dont take CCIE too lightly. Afterall, it was recognized as the highest level certification in networking field and it was surely designed in such a way that normal college students should'nt be getting it in their first or second attempts :-).

Your aim should be getting CCIE one day, once you have some experience with real routers in real world. In that way, companies might accept your expertise.

[mayjune]

Thank you so much guys, I thought no one would reply...

Well, that was exactly me and my friend were thinking for past few days....

Ok, if I do consider of getting expertise to be taken seriously, how many years of experience are you talking about, I know its difficult to say, but give me a general idea since you guys are more experienced then I am for sure

Also, what is the alternative path I can take. Basically I want to get into Network Security (Ethical hacking, Penetration Testing etc) for that I had the decided a route :
CCNA -> CCNP -> CCIE R&S (For Networking) -> CCNA Security -> CCNS -> CCIE Security (For Security) -> RHCE -> RHCSS (For Linux) -> CEH (Hacking)-> Pen Testing Cert (Pen Testing) -> CISSP (When I have enough experience )

But now, I am confused.... Should I go for CCNA , CCNA Security, CCNP, CCNS, RHCE, RHCSS and take experience and side by side study for CCIE's and do other courses or something....

I don't know... If you guys could give me some direction I would be very glad, I want to be the best in Network Security so taking a long path but if I complete it I would have a solid foundation in it where I can grow well..

Thanks again for all your help.

[ComputerDude]

Well, first you need to decide exactly which path you would like to pursue. You seem to have a strong interest in all things security. Even that has many paths within it so I would suggest focusing on one thing at a time.

Since I am not sure exactly where you are in your general IT knowledge or security knowledge, I will define what I would do if starting from a basic level.

Start with a vendor neutral cert like Security+. This will give you a good foundation to build upon that applies to any platform. Following that, since you said you are almost done with your CCNA, you should decide if you want to further explore Cisco security. It is an awesome field and I personally enjoy it very much. If you are enjoying your Cisco studies, I would recommend working on the CCNA Security next. This is a great course that has a lot of real world applicability. You learn about port security, vpn's, firewalls, and other security best practices. At this point, you will have a good taste for the networking security world and be able to form an opinion if you want to pursue it further.

At this point you may or may not want to look at some different material. It's good to be well rounded and so I would suggest learning some Linux. Any security engineer worth their salt has at least a basic proficiency in Linux.

Following that, take a look at some SANS courses. They seem to be highly recommended by everyone I have talked to.

I know this post kind of seems all over the place and incomplete, but really you kind of have to spend some time learning and figuring out exactly which avenue you enjoy. Hopefully this will give you a couple ideas to get going in the right direction.

[mayjune]

Hmmm..... Well I am doing my 3rd year IT Engg, I have a fair knowledge of security (Security + i would say) so doing CCNA Security -> RHCE is one option

I don't know, today my teacher, hes a CISSP, hes like go for CCIE R&S and then Do CCIE Security, according to him its possible for me...if i devote enough time I can. Also according to him, (in India) people have got v.v.good package who did there CCIE after graduation with no experience....

+ The fact that its impossible to crack, I feel like pursuing it, I can't be a hacker someday if I can't crack what is not crackable
Yeah, I maybe sounding a bit too dreamy, but its something thats making me feel like doing something worthwhile, something worth achieving in life.... If I achieve CCIE like others, it wouldn't be like achieving it...(it is still great, but there are still 20,000+ people like you who did it with many years of experience....) Yes I have read that thread where an instructor many years of exp cleared it in 3rd attempt...

My ultimate dream is to go into security only.
Actually, I have one year down (one subject i was not able to clear so i have to wait till next year to contd with 4th year), this whole year I can do whatever i want. So I have thought of devoting one complete year to CCNA (By 7th Sept) -> CCNP (By Feb 2011) -> CCIE (Aug 2011).
Oh and btw I am doing a Project on NIDS (Network Intrusion Detection System) side by side with a friend.. (Finishing by April 2010) So that will give me a very good idea of Security field. And in 2011-2012 I will do Linux and A Bigger better project for my BE in Security and do CCNA Security and CCSP...

Let me know what you think of it...

Thanks again to all you of you....

[Big Evil]

Mate i never try and post negative (i did say try! LOL)
But the dates you listed!
CCNA (By 7th Sept) Ok, fair enough, possible as you mentioned in your first post you are all but done.
CCNP (By Feb 2011) Yes, if you spend every minute you have spare. It is possible.
CCIE (Aug 2011) CCNP to CCIE in 6 months! Only the brave would attempt this.

The gap between CCNP and CCIE is VAST! Ask any "real" CCNP this.
You are also in college! Is college that easy then?

Real world here mate, if you came to my company and my CTO handed me your CV and you had the dates passed listed above and said "what are your thoughts?". I would say you had not enough real world knowledge. Theory is one thing, practical is another. I read on book on space flight last year, but NASA have not yet called me! Do you get my point?

I got my CCNP, the hard way. 5 hours a day self study (home lab and books/videos etc), plus i was working 2nd/3rd at an ISP and i had been a CCNA for a year and a half. Be a good CCNA first, be great CCNP and add CCSP to this and be a mid-field leader in both security and R&S. Then after some good years at break fix issue/core issues/many hours hands on go for your CCIE.

Just my 2 cents.

[ComputerDude]

Mate i never try and post negative (i did say try! LOL)
But the dates you listed!
CCNA (By 7th Sept) Ok, fair enough, possible as you mentioned in your first post you are all but done.
CCNP (By Feb 2011) Yes, if you spend every minute you have spare. It is possible.
CCIE (Aug 2011) CCNP to CCIE in 6 months! Only the brave would attempt this.

The gap between CCNP and CCIE is VAST! Ask any "real" CCNP this.
You are also in college! Is college that easy then?

Real world here mate, if you came to my company and my CTO handed me your CV and you had the dates passed listed above and said "what are your thoughts?". I would say you had not enough real world knowledge. Theory is one thing, practical is another. I read on book on space flight last year, but NASA have not yet called me! Do you get my point?

I got my CCNP, the hard way. 5 hours a day self study (home lab and books/videos etc), plus i was working 2nd/3rd at an ISP and i had been a CCNA for a year and a half. Be a good CCNA first, be great CCNP and add CCSP to this and be a mid-field leader in both security and R&S. Then after some good years at break fix issue/core issues/many hours hands on go for your CCIE.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree with this. To be completely honest I think you don't know what you don't know. Its great to dream, but I don't want you to be disappointed when you realize that these goals will not be met. Just work on one thing at a time and continue to make steady progress towards your goals.

[mayjune]

CCNA (By 7th Sept) Ok, fair enough, possible as you mentioned in your first post you are all but done.
Ok...well, i am preparing for it, I hope it goes well...

CCNP (By Feb 2011) Yes, if you spend every minute you have spare. It is possible.
I'll, as I said, I don't have college till July 2011. I can do whatever I want, so I can spend each and every minute of it on CCNP...

CCIE (Aug 2011) CCNP to CCIE in 6 months! Only the brave would attempt this.
Hmmmm... Then why is my instructor telling me if I spend 6 months completely I can do it.... I wonder, I mean, I don't think he gets anything out of it.... I am not challenging you or anyone on this thread, Just I am curious as why there is so much difference in opinion among people...


The gap between CCNP and CCIE is VAST! Ask any "real" CCNP this.
I don't know who I should call a real CCNP, but I can say that my instructor does know his stuff real well.... Hes a CCSI. The problem is I have never met a CCIE in real life whose working somewhere in India, so I don't know really what the scene is...

Real world here mate, if you came to my company and my CTO handed me your CV and you had the dates passed listed above and said "what are your thoughts?". I would say you had not enough real world knowledge. Theory is one thing, practical is another. I read on book on space flight last year, but NASA have not yet called me! Do you get my point?
I agree to what you say, But he has confused me, as per him its ok if you don't have real world knowledge, having practiced enough on lab you do get the concepts so well that in real world things will be much much easier for you when you do get into real world...

I got my CCNP, the hard way. 5 hours a day self study (home lab and books/videos etc),
nice...

plus i was working 2nd/3rd at an ISP
didn't get you, 2nd/3rd...?

and i had been a CCNA for a year and a half. Be a good CCNA first, be great CCNP and add CCSP to this and be a mid-field leader in both security and R&S. Then after some good years at break fix issue/core issues/many hours hands on go for your CCIE.

Do you recommend me working somewhere for 6 months from jan to july since im free, just to get a real world experience side by side so I can start my CCIE in Aug 2011..?

Or

After CCNP I go for CCNA Security and CCSP...?

Just my 2 cents.
Your 2 cents are worth millions mate...
Thanks a ton..

[Big Evil]

CCIE (Aug 2011) CCNP to CCIE in 6 months! Only the brave would attempt this.
Hmmmm... Then why is my instructor telling me if I spend 6 months completely I can do it.... I wonder, I mean, I don't think he gets anything out of it.... I am not challenging you or anyone on this thread, Just I am curious as why there is so much difference in opinion among people...

If you want a piece of paper that says CCIE on it, then it can be done if you put in the rack time.
Thing is, that’s all you will be a piece of paper, nothing more. You may as well print one out now,it will get you the same distance in your career.

The gap between CCNP and CCIE is VAST! Ask any "real" CCNP this.
I don't know who I should call a real CCNP, but I can say that my instructor does know his stuff real well.... Hes a CCSI. The problem is I have never met a CCIE in real life whose working somewhere in India, so I don't know really what the scene is...

A real CCNP is someone who is working at CCNP level, say a senior engineer on a complex network, daily.
You need to work with people of all level, pick their brains everyday. Watch them, learn from them and ask question until they want to hurt you! LOL

Real world here mate, if you came to my company and my CTO handed me your CV and you had the dates passed listed above and said "what are your thoughts?". I would say you had not enough real world knowledge. Theory is one thing, practical is another. I read on book on space flight last year, but NASA have not yet called me! Do you get my point?
I agree to what you say, But he has confused me, as per him its ok if you don't have real world knowledge, having practiced enough on lab you do get the concepts so well that in real world things will be much much easier for you when you do get into real world...

He is mostly wrong, sorry. You do need real world knowledge. Not every network you will work with is text book set up. Some gear will be old, some maybe new. Some may have little caveats , that will trip you up and cause you to drop the network. Stuff like IOS, or the way it is set up by the last guy who you have replaced etc.
Yes it helps, home/study lab. But would I compare my home lab to my work set up, no! If i mess someting up at work, there is no "WR E" on the 6500 at work. Plus if i kill my home lab, the only person who is grumpy is me. I kill at switch at work, be it a 8 port or a 6500, my phone goes and the gates of the hellmouth open!

plus i was working 2nd/3rd at an ISP
didn't get you, 2nd/3rd...?

2nd/3rd line support mate.

and i had been a CCNA for a year and a half. Be a good CCNA first, be great CCNP and add CCSP to this and be a mid-field leader in both security and R&S. Then after some good years at break fix issue/core issues/many hours hands on go for your CCIE.

Do you recommend me working somewhere for 6 months from jan to july since im free, just to get a real world experience side by side so I can start my CCIE in Aug 2011..?
Or
After CCNP I go for CCNA Security and CCSP...?

Just my thoughts, get you CCNA. Get a job, settle in your new job. Then start your CCNP, take a year (ish) to do your CCNP. I mean know every subject inside out and back to front. That is a real CCNP. There a a number of guys here are CCNP (or multiple CC*P) and they know their stuff. In fact they know more than most CCIE's do! If you think a cert will answer all your prayers, you would be wrong.
A cert is partof the big picture, trust me.

[mayjune]

Finally Got CCNA 961/1000 Phewww.. My exam crashed in between, that too in sim, for a sec I thought i'll have to do it again, but luckily had to contd from there, although had to do the sim again but it was ok.

So Confused, what to do next, but most probably i'll do RHCE now, as I need it for my project + wanna take a break from cisco
But yeah will get back to CCIE in sometime, so don't worry, will post my CCIE number soon.... no not sooo soon either

[a61971]

Hi

As a teamleader I was just involved in hireing a new guy to the company.

We looked for a person to handle VMWare, SAN, NAS, Microsoft/UNIX servers, a bit of networking and programming.

Looking at the applications, the first ones to get dumped was the young dudes without experience but
with a lot of certifications (often taken within a short period of time).
I simply think "No real life experience, and have dumped the certifications".

The job went to a middel-aged guy, with a long university education, but not a single certification.
But he had a long story of long and hard battles in the IT-field: Been there, tried it .....

Certifications is nothing in these "dump-days", - any smart guy can go from "0" to CCNP in a few months.
We have a young guy with every Microsoft certification, - he can't even do the most simple jobs. Why? -We all know the answer ...

Get some real life experience, fight some battles, this will shine on your CV. The most respected guys I know
in networking dosen't even have a CCNA. But they are the best in business.

I'm trying to get the CCIE R&S, but that's purely as a personal challenge. Can I do it?

[Darby Weaver]

So well said.

These last few weeks I've been approached for a lot of jobs:

1. ~100k to live in luxury on the beach and never have to worry about medical bills again - Running 2 Companies Networks and Data Centers side-by-side in two cities and being available to work on national projects.

2. $70.00/hour = $145k+ per year...

3. $135k down the street....

4. $110k + all expenses (about $150-160k total package).

This is just in the last few weeks or so - basically since July.

Recent Projects:

1. Interconnect a pair of Data Centers for Data/Voice + MPLS.

2. Perform disovery of a network and recommend changes, implement the changes (Data Center + Wireless + Security + Voice)

3. Perform a Security Audit for a Network and then act on improving the findings for an upcoming audit.

4. Perform Network Audit followed by a Network "take-over" = Command and Control Project +Security + Load Balancing + Voice + Wireless

5. Troubleshoot VoIP/Wireless/MPLS issues and then resolve promptly = Nexus/CUWN/UCS/Metro/Mesh etc.

My day job encompasses all of the above and then some. Planning/Design/Re-Design/Re-Use/Optimize/Operate/Troubleshoot/Maintain/etc. + Mentor/Train/Document and other duties as required.


I'm just a CCNP and the pot over-filleth...

CCNA's who are capable are equally sought out and employed vigorously.

Paper CCIE's tend to be weeded out...

Let's face it if a CCNP, like me for example, is capable of doing the above mentioned projects what do you think they are expecting of a CCIE?


I'd fully expect a CCIE to make CCNPs like me look like a "fresher"....



http://www.darbyslog.blogspot.com

Edited by Darby Weaver, 26 September 2010 - 10:14 AM.

[a61971]

WOW

Nice saleries. Looks like the business is recovering again over there ...

Not quite yet here in Europe ....

Ahhh, back to lab .... (Brussels closing up, needs the practice, two guys here in the local area have passed the beast this year .... me tooo !!!)

Edited by a61971, 26 September 2010 - 06:42 PM.

[Darby Weaver]

People say it is not.

I actually believe there are so many people who want the present administration to fail on a larger scale it almost feels like a conspiracy.

The economy was pretty much tanked in 2008 when the president took office. It was. There was even fear of a run on banks since banks were failing in numbers not seen since the depression.

Now it sounds like some people would have us believe differently. How soon we forget I guess. The huge stimulus bill would have been passed by either party.

The jobs llok like they are there to me and my company is spending more money that it has on IT than it did in the past 10+ years.

Other companies are hiring too if the offers I receive are any indication.


Does not look so bad from my point of view.

[skkshahbaz]

I am an Electronics and Telecommunication Btech, i want to know which of the cisco certification VOIC, RS, SEC or ISP should i opt where my Btech degree is valuable with respect to job currently i am prepearing for CCNA RS???

[skkshahbaz]

Also is it necessary to have CCNA and CCNP certification to get a good job after CCIE certification ???

[MarkinManchester]

Also is it necessary to have CCNA and CCNP certification to get a good job after CCIE certification ???

Is that a serious question Mark

[faisal.saleem]

I am an Electronics and Telecommunication Btech, i want to know which of the cisco certification VOIC, RS, SEC or ISP should i opt where my Btech degree is valuable with respect to job currently i am prepearing for CCNA RS???

Hi shahbaz, i also done same B-Tech and i think you can adopt any track whatever you like to plan for your future career. Security and voice are always hot choices because R&S Engineers are already over-flooded everywhere. Beside certifications if you really wants some hands-on experience then i would recommend to gain a job in any ISP or a telecom vendor asap.

Also is it necessary to have CCNA and CCNP certification to get a good job after CCIE certification ???

NO

Is that a serious question Mark

NO