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#1 a61971

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 09:03 AM

Some weeks ago the rumors hit the internet, -Cisco was close to introducing new labs in the R&S lab test. New tests and new format,
as the new lab should be "modular" in construction. Not a static lab that can be leaned and remembered.

It seems like it already has happened. On other forums stories runs that people are failing the test now.

Makes me nervous ... I'm a couple of months from my first attempt now .....
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#2 Darby Weaver

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 09:18 AM

Some weeks ago the rumors hit the internet, -Cisco was close to introducing new labs in the R&S lab test. New tests and new format,
as the new lab should be "modular" in construction. Not a static lab that can be leaned and remembered.

It seems like it already has happened. On other forums stories runs that people are failing the test now.

Makes me nervous ... I'm a couple of months from my first attempt now .....



Umm... It's better than that actually.

Not only modular but during Cisco Live they actually changed content, wording, and tasks on the fly. Due to the nature of the troubleshooting exam it was explained to us that this was pretty impressive.

The idea is that the labs can now be changed at all locations on the fly - in particular, with regard to troubleshooting.

Example:

A specific well-discussed exam question was specifically mentioned by one of the attendees... Bruno got pretty upset about it and said he'd take care of it or fix it or something like that... Translation: It will either be removed or be modified.

Interesting how this ability to immediately correct exam questions/tasks globally via remote mechanisms will affect future would-be CCIE's.

Cisco can now control the flow of the CCIE exam takers on a per month, week, or day basis.

The Cisco exam designers already informed Cisco Live attendees that they know the exam is or can be cracked literally withing a week of a new exam.

So...

Now... as soon as they are aware of any cracked lab...

Well then the exam can be changed (just a little will do the trick) and the population of CCIE's are under control - at least those that sought to simply "take the test easily" just to get the paper.


Now...

This should not bother a real CCIE since a real CCIE can mostly take anyone's lab on mostly any day and expect to do rather well irregardless of how the lab is changed...

Theoretically, this "Real CCIE" would not be using such "K-Vitamins" in any event to take the lab in the first place.

Nothing like lean and mean muscle power.


Of course if Cisco figures out that not enough lean mean real CCIE's exist they can then tone down the exams accordingly to control the population of CCIE's at any such time as they deem necessary.


It's a pretty decent fix for a collaborated world where intellectual property can be distributed within the blink of an eye... aka 100ms or less.


:)


Good luck to all and don't despair... this is just a new twist to the same old game... it's like magic in the air.

Besides... I've been reminded by many of our favorite vendors that there training is simply the best and that their students can pass just on the basis of this fine and exemplary training when used properly, else it is merely the fault of the less than stellar student... never theirs. They cover the technology just fine.


Darby
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#3 Big Evil

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 08:24 PM

Was this not also the case when Cisco brought out the CCIEv4 lab end of 2010? People were failing, people were cancelling their date - panic in the disco!

As Darby mentioned a true CCIE candidate should be able to pass the exam, given the proctor is not a cruel spawn of satan who has been spat out from the depths of hell.
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#4 a61971

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 08:41 PM

Was this not also the case when Cisco brought out the CCIEv4 lab end of 2010? People were failing, people were cancelling their date - panic in the disco!

As Darby mentioned a true CCIE candidate should be able to pass the exam, given the proctor is not a cruel spawn of satan who has been spat out from the depths of hell.



I'm not sure this change is going to be dumped that easily. This new format seems to be dynamic and harder to predict. Good stuff.

But I have this idea that the lab is already too hard.

Scott Morris, Odom and several other "guru's" failed the beta V4 lab.

Perhaps has the lab increased in difficulty as an answer to the dumps.

If a "true and holy" CCIE should pass the lab at any time ... then your conclusion must be that 4x CCIE, CCDE and 2x Juniper "CCIE" Scott Morris is not a true CCIE ???

Cisco has 2 current problems, how to stop the dumps and how high to raise the bar against a true and honest student.
They seems to have mixed these 2 problems up, raising the bar unrealistic high to stop dumpers (failed that task) but killed
the honest students with this move.

As far as I have heard did all 360 students fail too .... until fresh K-vitamins hit the market.

Perhaps the tasks in the lab is fair enough, but the number of tasks is too high. 10-12 TS tickets in 2 hours .... seems like a lot ??

Pure speculation ... I don't know :blush:

Edited by a61971, 13 August 2011 - 08:44 PM.

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#5 chrcel

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 09:32 PM

let's see dynamic labs. interesting, it also brings some problems. it is wording of questions (it always has been a bit strange for us not native), running it to bugs and last, but not least the evaluation of the solution. with static labs proctors had enough time to tune the assessment scripts. now the proctor has much more "power" at hand. and from my experience not all proctors are the same...
it has a lot of potential. so let's see how cisco handles it this time.
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#6 MarkinManchester

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 09:51 PM

The format and content will be distributed within a few weeks of it going live, just the same old churn of the same old crap. If it becomes to hard cisco will have only succeeded in sinking there own ship.

In other words dont worry just carry on and remain calm.

Mark
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#7 a61971

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 10:01 PM

Talking about TS, then they must have a flexible basic design.

Then they must develop 100-200 errors (tried, tested and with assessment scrips) that can be introduced to this basic design.

This can be dumped, but is much harder to do, because it's not a number of static TS labs, but a endless combination of tickets.

And then the ticket database can be changed on the fly.

If they do it right, - then it's close to "in-dumpable".

The config section is much harder to secure, as the different tasks must be "inter-dependable". Takes much more effort to develop.

Markthepoet ;) is on the right track, if Cisco don't do this right ... then we are back in the old lane.

And, to what I hear, Cisco is an huge organization, no-one coordinates, no-one listens to other people, and resources are un-accessible.

Edited by a61971, 13 August 2011 - 10:05 PM.

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#8 Big Evil

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 10:22 PM

How come then no one has ever dumped the JNCIE - what are Juniper doing to keep this from happening & why cannot Cisco do the same?
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#9 MarkinManchester

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 10:25 PM

How come then no one has ever dumped the JNCIE - what are Juniper doing to keep this from happening & why cannot Cisco do the same?




Because the audience is too small so the return would be to low to bother

Mark


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#10 chrcel

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 10:55 PM

And, to what I hear, Cisco is an huge organization, no-one coordinates, no-one listens to other people, and resources are un-accessible.


according to some people cisco's org structure is much like this Attached File  125505.strip.gif   58.19KB   27 downloads
http://dilbert.com/s...mic/2011-06-21/

Edited by chrcel, 13 August 2011 - 10:57 PM.

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#11 a61971

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 11:03 PM

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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#12 a61971

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 11:05 PM

How come then no one has ever dumped the JNCIE - what are Juniper doing to keep this from happening & why cannot Cisco do the same?



You made me Google this. You can buy dumps too for JNCIE .... it's cracked ...
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#13 Big Evil

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 12:35 AM

You made me Google this. You can buy dumps too for JNCIE .... it's cracked ...


The world is nigh........
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#14 Big Evil

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 12:38 AM

according to some people cisco's org structure is much like this Attached File  125505.strip.gif   58.19KB   27 downloads
http://dilbert.com/s...mic/2011-06-21/


I saw that on Brad Reese's blog the other week - again he caused a stir.
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#15 MarkinManchester

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 12:43 AM

The world is nigh........


you know its only self satisfaction and only you know that you didnt dump the exam! once complete you move on and take the money without guilt because lifes to short.

Darby has made a crusade of this exam and if he calculated the time he has spent on this he would cry, so remember if you can grab the smarties and run do it because although god loves a trier he will not pay your bills.

Love & Kisses to all

Mark
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#16 Big Evil

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 12:50 AM

Great now i want Smarties. :(
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#17 ThermalWinter

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 12:52 AM

you know its only self satisfaction and only you know that you didnt dump the exam! once complete you move on and take the money without guilt because lifes to short.

Darby has made a crusade of this exam and if he calculated the time he has spent on this he would cry, so remember if you can grab the smarties and run because although god loves a trier he will not pay your bills.

Love & Kisses to all

Mark



Very wise words.

Edited by ThermalWinter, 14 August 2011 - 12:55 AM.

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#18 Darby Weaver

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 12:57 AM

How come then no one has ever dumped the JNCIE - what are Juniper doing to keep this from happening & why cannot Cisco do the same?


Sorry...

Not what I'm told.

That team in China didn't stop at the CCIE.
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#19 chrcel

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 12:57 AM

I saw that on Brad Reese's blog the other week - again he caused a stir.

yup he did, but he does that rather often. cisco are firing 17% (or was it just 17) of VPs and above...
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#20 Darby Weaver

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 01:18 AM

It was supposed to be a challenge for a minimally qualified network engineer...

Then came the social networks aka the Web 1.0 and followed quickly by the Web 2.0...

Yesterday it was the social network and today...

Today is just the cloud...


It's been a while since probably anyone person could claim they actually passed a lab "all by themselves" since the money became a factor in the equation.


Today it is probably best to do what Mark says is so wonderfully clear: DUMP THE HELL OUT OF IT - JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CCIE AND MOVE ON.

People ask for the CCIE and the CCIE has by definition been long dumped and trumped and that's what the expectation is... for the CCIE.


A person clever enough to "Captain Kirk" the Lab... William Shatner probably did not even understand why it was ironic that's his own character is so "iconic" when it comes to Cisco and... that thing called the CCIE.

If the CCIE is tough to pass normally... cheat it and pass.

In the end you will be a CCIE and that's what just about everyone else had to do anyway with few exceptions... and if there are any exceptions... they would, themselves, have to cheat it to beat it today or get some insight from somewhere.


Sorry...

I've asked questions of CCIE Trainers in the past and on the first shot within 30 minutes to 8 hours they typically don't make the cut either on a per question basis...

With no stress of the lab and maybe a lack of care although they seem interested.

I can think of maybe one CCIE who has even taken the time to answer one of those riddles... others just don't seem care.. or they have better things to do...


Most CCIE types you meet will strangely not even take kindly to being asked questions about the technologies they master and if it were not for TK... I fear many would not be a CCIE at all come time to re-cert on the written.


Mark is absolutely correct: You need the digits and that's it.



No one cares how you got them.
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