17 replies to this topic

[InDublin]

I was browsing through the forum recently as I had a bit of time to spare and I thought to myself, I might help someone out with a problem or two!

So, I had a look through some posts and found someone looking for the answer to an exam question. I have a keen eye for tricky exam questions being a teacher...

So, I replied with some advice that might offer a solution. But it involved going to the manufacturers web site to read about the topic in question, and/or testing settings on a PC.

About an hour later the person had another post asking for these answers.

Well...

Maybe they visited the site and learned all about the topic in question....

Maybe they tested the settings on a computer...

Maybe they could not come to a conclusion....

Maybe they were not sure if it was A or B that was correct because A and B were so close it was hard to tell them apart.

Or just maybe they didn't want to read up on a topic, or test settings!

Maybe they are too used to being told the answer, without the need to understand.

It's detrimental to us all to encourage people in this way!

So, tell me please...

Do you tell people the answers to to exam questions, allowing them to pass without understanding why?

Because if you do, it's no small wonder that people laugh at our certifications! Even though some of us earned them...

Damian

ps: I'll help anyone (to understand) I don't care where you're from, what color your skin is, what sex you are, what age you are... if you have a desire to learn, you'll find all the answers you need. The road to certification isn't that hard a journey, and can be a pleasure when we help each other along...

h**p://www.petri.co.il/paper_mcse.htm

[neo2003sp1]

InDublin,

SIGH! I already keep shaking my head for a long time ago...
Thank you! Mr. MCT

P.S. Previously, I posted some similar topic as follow:
http://www.sadikhov....ndpost&p=203648
http://www.sadikhov....ndpost&p=200046
http://www.sadikhov....ndpost&p=187008
http://www.sadikhov....ndpost&p=197338

I feel too tired to stay within Sadikhov Forum, and I'm sure Mr. MCT can continue my mission.

[BOFH]

Your posts really made me think!

I get angry everytime I see a
"the answer is D" post and whenever someone says tell me all the wrong answers.

I took a large chunk of time out from legitimate studies to see if TK had any value at all. Answer: 30% of the questions were wrong.

I'm tired of posting explanations now for noobs that say

"Thanks BOFH
I got my exam thanks to memorising your answers."

Why not: "Thanks BOFH for helping me understand the subject matter better or understanding exam techniques."

I aint no braynedumpa I like to know my stuff is all.
I dont feel I'm giving back to usenet anymore I just feel like I'm being shafted for trying to help.

Like you I think I've had enough.

Just let one of those paper MCSE's apply for a job with me
I'll grill them and then ask "who's the daddy?!"

[rekow]

Let me agree with you all, it's kinda sad that people can achieve mcse by only memorising the answers so imho is a good thing that ms introduced simulations, lets hope that ms puts more effort and mcsa/mcse gain some credit.

For me most of the "fun" of getting ready for ms exams is first studying the subject using various resources from sybex books to ms site documentation on aspects that arent well covered and then setting a lab at home with vmware or real machines depending on the requirements, some enviroments are hard to build like clusters but for me is entertaining go through the whole process and then test products that i dont use on my job enviroment.

Aswell i use tk but as a final step and indeed i feel like i really know my stuff when i find out that are filled with wrong answers and also is amazing to go through the process of finding the right answer on the ones that you have doubts, nothing better than test on your own lab btw

I think ms should go the cisco way, 90% of ccna that i know of went to cisco official course and even if used a tk just used it for training purposes cause the question pool is well over 600q. Also they should push moc prices lower and make them more valuable like require one for achieve mcsa and another extra one for mcse like oracle or vmware do.

pd: one off-topic question, for teach a moc course you must be mct?

[sqlguy]

Yeah, I agree. Because of the cheaters, the MCSE 2003 exams are now harder than the MCSE 2000.

It is not fair for honest people who want to get the certificates studying.
I have to study really hard to understand all the material.

[lakmal]

Well....I guess those who only use tks to pass MCSA or MCSE or any other exam will find the real picture when they face an interview.

As a Sys Admin I have seen this many a time whenever we conduct interviews for junior admins. It only take one simple question and if you are a pure tk Pro, you will know where you stand. Hard luck

So...if you relly want to give your career a boost....earn the certification and earn the knowledge...'cos without it, you are going nowhere!

[mtec]

I agree with all of you! It feels better to have passed the certification exams because of hard work.

I passed 290 with a score of 700 by reading books and going through the Microsoft Knowledg Base. I passed 270 with a score of 921 because of Test King. I'm more proud of my 290 result because it truly reflects how much of what I understand.

A real certified professional should be able to pass even without Test King and the like. Those who passed by simply memorizing what is in Test King and not understanding anything at all are like empty egg shells.

[InDublin]

Thanks guys, it's nice to hear your opinions. I find them very interesting.

I do believe that the exams should be practical, and show evidence that you can perform the tasks.

I think MS exam writers must try to make the exams tricky. Some of the questions are quite obscure or silly sometimes, and refer to things that don't come into the day to day running of a network. Though I do think that the majority of exam questions test valid skills.

MS will also ask you questions on many things that are not covered on an MOC course, even if it's the course they reccommend. I know that their point of view is that sitting on a course is not enough to pass the exams, you need experience too. But the question is, how to test that in people? And surely they should value someone more who has sat on an MOC course above someone who just looked at a testking for a few days.

There's a great confidence you get from knowing you can do a job. And I'm sure most people with certification in mind would love to know their stuff in detail, and present their credentials as evidence of that. But there are a few who are just interested in the first few letters of the alphabet...

The answer isn't A,B,C or D... the answer is the solution presented in the correct answer, based on how Windows and other technologies work...

I'm interested in helping people to be more confident in what they know. I don't like to see people waste their time, or having little to show for it. I don't want people to be afraid to ask a question though. If they are looking to understand a question, and why the answer is what it is, that's great. I love to see people debating answers to questions, and saying why they think they are right. There's alot of learning going on their when you have an open mind...

Damian
MCT

rekow: Yes, you must be an MCT to deliver MOC training, or to purchace MOC materials...

[Serioga]

Well, InDublin, your topic is absolutely hot! I 100% agree with you concerning pseudo MCSA/MCSE. When I studied for 290 and 291 it was new area for me, because of this I've spent one year for it as a free time activity. But now I can really say, I got to know What is more, sometimes I'm reaaly very angry, when someone writes here: "I've just passed 70-XXX, thanx for TK".. TK is only final step to be sure wether are you really ready. So, ... this topic will be redisscused more and more.

[neo2003sp1]

Congratulations InDublin,

This article has won the best of "Post of the Month" for June
http://www.sadikhov....ndpost&p=213627

[plugh]

Very well said indeed. When I was studying 299 I got sick of all the "The answer is D" posters. Funnily enough, one chap who kept getting 1000s asked a question about 284, a subject I don't know much about yet. A quick google brought up an answer, but he then considered me an expert! The guy was a comlpete fraud.

Now that the downloads are gone, hopefully the leechers will have slid off somewhere else, leaving the rest of us to get on with some proper study.

[mpayette]

Congrads InDublin;

I also would like to send a congrads to InDublin... I have not been posting much since I keep seeing what is the answer to this and that. I have been dissapointed with the MCSE path since there are so many dumps out there and it's not fun! I let my CCNP lapse for the same reason.

I gotta say that I passed my HP Openview exams and posted the exam credentials. Not 1 hours later, I got a email asking for the dump and help. I sent all the PDFs I got from HP and never got a thanks. I believe this was because I did not do a dump. The same is said about my CWNA.

Of late, I have been working on the CCSA and SNIA since these don't have as many dumps and are challenging...

Each day I am reminded of how much fun it is to support paper cert administrators... I love and hate my job.... But it could be much worse.

Anyhow, good luck to all...

[neo2003sp1]

Congrads InDublin;

    I also would like to send a congrads to InDublin... I have not been posting much since I keep seeing what is the answer to this and that. I have been dissapointed with the MCSE path since there are so many dumps out there and it's not fun! I let my CCNP lapse for the same reason.

   I gotta say that I passed my HP Openview exams and posted the exam credentials. Not 1 hours later, I got a email asking for the dump and help. I sent all the PDFs I got from HP and never got a thanks. I believe this was because I did not do a dump. The same is said about my CWNA.

   Of late, I have been working on the CCSA and SNIA since these don't have as many dumps and are challenging...

   Each day I am reminded of how much fun it is to support paper cert administrators... I love and hate my job.... But it could be much worse.

   Anyhow, good luck to all...

mpayette,

As you can see, there are many "One of The Kind" people who living in this IT world...Request for All, No More "Thank You!"
http://www.sadikhov....ndpost&p=212924

[mcse_2k3]

Hello Everyone!! I thought I would take a minute to comment on this thread as well. I think InDublin has written an excellent thread and I agree with him. As most people might know, I am new to the IT industry and I could not have passed all of my exams without the help of this forum. Yes, I used Tk's as studyguides BUT, I did not rely on them. I have a HUGE stack of books that I have read and I spent a lot of money to go to school for this. I know the best way to gain knowledge is to have real life experience but I don't have that yet. I have not been on sadikhov lately as I have been devoting my time to a job search. This forum is a great place to be and I will never leave. I am interested in what goes on here and there are a great deal of people with a great deal of knowledge. Now that the downloads are gone, some people will slip away as plugh said but I will not be one of them. Thanks to all of you that have provided your insight here at sadikhov!!! I will become much more involved again but for now, I still need to concentrate on finding a job. Thanks InDublin for sharing your thoughts and congrats on winning the post of the month.

[pllegends]

I compliment InDublin and members on this excellent thread. I agree that MCSE should not just reflect people that are good at memorizing answers. I must admit because I am changing careers and am New to MS, I have used TKs to assist me. But I also attend MOC courses and have an extensive IT library for reference. What I have discovered lately is that as I use the Newer TKs with their explanations, they have made me more curious to check myself on the areas I don't seem to know well and not rely so much on their answers. In this case the TKs have actually made me study more and look up things on technet and the various reference books I have. I am glad that sites such as Sadikhov.com exist with members that actually care on helping others advance and that MS is actually trying to improve the quality of the certifications by using simulations and assisting with virtual labs on technet. I think some rely on TKs because they are like I am, New to the field. The corporate environment these days does not make much room for internships or newbies that are willing to learn. Recent job searches show me that they require x amount of experience and x amount of certifications, but newbies hit the vicious cycle of how to get experience if no one give you a chance, which makes them desperate to achieve as many certs as possible in the hope that this will impress someone enough to open the door to them. Of course this is not the answer and they find out during the interviews or after getting fired after a week or two. I myself just started volunteering, and hope to gather experience that way, but I think that until companies help those that truly have the desire and have achieved an acceptable level of knowledge, "Paper Certified Professionals" will always be seeking "answers" to questions, instead of solutions.

[BOFH]

Very well said indeed. When I was studying 299 I got sick of all the "The answer is D" posters. Funnily enough, one chap who kept getting 1000s asked a question about 284, a subject I don't know much about yet. A quick google brought up an answer, but he then considered me an expert! The guy was a comlpete fraud.

Now that the downloads are gone, hopefully the leechers will have slid off somewhere else, leaving the rest of us to get on with some proper study.

hear-hear!

[NawabQUreshi]

Hello all ,

i read everyone's opinion and most of u people have their experience while discussing the issue .
I am not a certified in any of the Venders Certification course ... Ofcourse i am preparing for One ...
Few days ago i heard about a girl whose age is 9 yrs old and she is MCSD.net and MCAD.net ..... i mean what a wonder i didnt thought for computers at the age of 9 while i did have computer at home ... i just played computer games over it ..
Now i hear that 9 yrs old girl is a certified Professional .... how did she get this ? At what age she started her preparation ? i mean there are lots of questions in my mind ...
Keeping this in the origin this is not the problem of memorizing the questions ... I dont think so If any one says that he doesnt memorize anything that would be totally rubbish ... Its in human nature .. no one have the ability to just go for the problem before having the complete defination in the mind ... if u say this the memorization .. Sorry my friend .. U belongs to the same category !!

Regarding the importance of the Certification and why people get rejected so its very much straigh forward ... I went for an interview and the b0ss asked some questions for the Internship in that software House ... Those were totally practical based questions ... and at one instance .. he asked me to debug a problem .. i did that and in return i got the Internship ...

If anyone Says that they are not getting the jobs while they are certified ... Then Friends Look inside urselves and measure urself how much u r able to make the job inspite of blaming the people that they dont value the certifications !!

I hope i am not hurting anyone's feelings ..

Thanx

Best Of Luck to All Including me

[Son_Kazama]

I definitely agree.

But...

I also would like to send a congrads to InDublin... I have not been posting much since I keep seeing what is the answer to this and that. I have been dissapointed with the MCSE path since there are so many dumps out there and it's not fun! I let my CCNP lapse for the same reason.

My instructor keeps on telling us the CCNP is easier than CCNA. I didn't believe it at first. Now that I have CCNP Semester 1 curriculum, after browsing it gave me the idea that it is easier.

I will take my CCNP next year plus CCIP. He tells us not to enroll for CCNP anymore because it's a waste of money knowing that all you need was given during your CCNA.

Anyways, all MCSA and MCSE 2003 exams are getting harder and harder. So, goodluck to those who just memorize dumps and goodluck during job interviews. I hope they pass...

hehehe!