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My Learning Experiences


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#1 rens

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Posted 09 June 2007 - 02:19 AM

Hallo my fellow sadikhovians. This is the first time that I post anything, so a short introduction would be helpfull. In 1999 I had the oportunity to get 4 of the 6 necessary papers for MCSE on NT4. After that I managed to get the fifth tcp/ip with 1000 pounts. Because of other studies, I never had the change to get MCSE. Back then it was harder for me to get MCSE than it is now in 2007. I did not know about TK and P4S ( did they excist ? ) so I studied with transcender, thats a lot harder. On december 4 2006 I started the MCSE track, now I am MCSE + M and on monday 11 juni I will become MCSE +M +S On two exams I had now 1000 points. All together I will have 15 MCSE exams behind me on monday.

So, now everyone knows a bit who is talking. On taking exams I consider my self as experienced. I want to give some advice and make some remarks. First... paper MCSE... on my opinion nairly everybody who has no experience is a paper MCSE no matter how you studied. The questions that we get don't reflect the reality. Imagine that a Systems Engineer with ten years experience must make the seven exams without learning... he would probably dramaticly fail. Walk along the questions and ask yourself witch of them would he ever had in real live. Many questions go about stuff that you'll probable never encounter. Most off the stuff that you will encounter aren't in the exams. Please walk along the questions, and imagine when you would get them in real live. Futhermore, if you studied very hard and know hardly everything, is that a garrantee that you would be a good systems engineer ? or even a support engineer ? In my opinion you must have a certain insight that you cannot learn. If you encounter a problem, instantly several possible solutions must come to your mind. You can not get that by learning alone. With that gift you can get MCSE on the easy TK and P4S way and still be a good systems engineer. So do not judge anybody untill you have seen him on the job... not knowing what to do. Back in 1999 I met an experienced systems engineer on my exam that failed on one exam three times and I passed three different exams. Why ? In reallity you must make other choices then you must make on exams, he had 17 years of experience, he couldn't learn it on the microsoft way. I had no experience and was blank in 1999 and learned the microsoft way and passed everytime. Now 2006 /2007 I studied TK and P4S very hard to pass the tests, but to know my thing... three computer... ISA + Exchange + Client and try even more than what is in the questions.

If I had doubts on a question... sadikhov... examcollection.... google... and then most often Technet. Three days to school and every evening, saterday and sunday... browsing and learning. After every exam I knew more and the latest exams it's paytime twice 1000 points and one credential after the other... So, if your beginning... the first are the hardest but then they get easier ( if you really study ) then comes the sweet. If you just learn TK and P4S it keeps difficult. Some people love CBT nuggets, I didn't, I fall a sleep. The best are in my opinion [productbanned]s then TestOuts, then [productbanned]. [productbanned] shows how you do it on the server, the client etc. So not to get passed alone but to get qualified also.

Rens
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#2 bilgisayar

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Posted 09 June 2007 - 04:43 AM

I don't know but people are differerent. I like your explanations about the way you learn. Thanks for sharing. That might be real help for someone.
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#3 it's me

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Posted 09 June 2007 - 05:19 AM

Thanks for the share,

Getting a cetification does not mean you can cut it in real life. You learn far more on the job day to day, after a few years on the right job you really learn it, help of experienced colleges speeds up the process. Another IT job or the about same job with antoher company helps, you probably experience other things you haven't seen before.

But if you put in the time to study with help of books, courses and all the other stuff at hand it speeds up the process even more. Plus it adds some structure and insights you don't always find on the job. Overall there's more to learn and a study to become, for instance, a mcse is a good way to motivate yourself to learn.

I start working in the IT field in 1989, the DOS age. When I graduated I thought (or wished) I never had to learn again. Now I force myself to keep up, going for some certifications is one way of motivating myself to do it. And let's behonest, a certificate to add to the list is always welcome and helps to find another job if you want it.

And everytime I learn new things, in books, on courses and even on a TK I sometimes find answers of problems I encountered on the job.

I guess the main point is; how you study doesn't matter that much, books, courses, TK's, experience. Pick the mix that's right for yourself, everything is better then doing no study at all and you always get better by that one way or the other.
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#4 rens

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 01:36 AM

I just wanted to defend the persons who are sometimes called paper mcse's Nobody can make such a remark without knowing the person. And a experienced good systems engineer doesn't have to be a MCSE or got to have that knowledge to be good. Bilgisayar is right when he says people are different. I think the difference in people and how to study depends on how many on hand experience and learning experience someone has. It's second nature to me to give tips to beginners, rather then to pro's. My list... [productbanned], TestOut, [productbanned] and then CBT nuggets is probably for beginners the best, for pro's it's the other way around I see now. So, experienced sadikhovians... CBT nuggets. To build your own network at home, with or without virtual machines couldn't hurt anybody I think. I did mention Technet a bit, but I think it deserves more credit. It isn't mentioned in this forum a lot. Technet is great if you have doubt about a question. I google a lot and then I were directed a lot to TechNet. Then the questions about... should I study Pass4Sure or Testking. Pass4Sure has less questions to learn. In P4S are probable all the questions that you will get. But... the answers are more often wrong then in TestKing. So look in P4S what questions you will get and learn the answers from TestKing. As a bonus you will get some more questions from Testking to learn the concept a bit better. Who starts with the MCSE track I wanted to say that the first are the hardest and the last, the electives have less questions and the tests have less mistaken answers... a lor easier to learn... I think. Pick the mix of learning is good advice. And spending money on papers is well spend money. It will get you to more understanding too, and nobody will ever take that paper and knowledge away from you. It looks nice on your cv. Think about that if you stop at the point that you're MCSA / MCSE I still got some money and after monday I will take a big while off and then study some more... Vista... CCNA... the list goes on and on.
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#5 michanel

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 03:25 PM

I like the way that RENS put it - "17 years of experience and that's why he cannot learn it Microsoft's Way". To a point, that is exactly what it is - that we are certify as "MICROSOFT CERTIFIED SYSTEM ENGINEERS". I have a sort of belief that there are multiple ways of doing things - some good, some bad, some more effective, some not - "All paths lead to ROME". The questions is, who's path are you walking on - Microsoft - or Others?

Even in the minimal stage of those who ONLY learned their materials through Pass4sure or TestKing, one can see how the questions are leading to - a certain way/style that one can related to once they analyze the questions altogether. I've followed an MOC instructor for the duration of my MCSE course, and I notice that he did things in a CERTAIN particular way (AGUDLP, LSDOU, etc). He would explain it to us why he would do it in such a fashion, and then we are to practice it in the labs that he had designed - in such similar fashion that Microsoft had design the test and questions. The labs themselves had enforced the learning experience and had greatly help my understanding of the Test's questions and purpose. To train MCSE in a certain standard and style that is acceptablely called MCSE. Sure, everyone can learn networking and passed tests as well and became a Network Engineer for X years. But they won;t be called an MCSE until they have gone through it the way Microsoft had design it.

It is true that when it comes to handling Real-Life situation, people will definitely handle it differently. Naturally, experience would broadened people's mind and their possibility of solutions and handling the situation. So keep learning, and hopefully, it will become easier as we go along.
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